Installation/Upgrade Advice

[FadeE.]

I’m seeking advice to improve and upgrade my recently installed security system. I currently have 10 Axis M3105LVE cameras running on a Blue Iris server. I’ve done my best to create a layout of the property and the current camera placements. It would be better if I could share satellite and street photos, but I don't want to easily dox myself.

My goal is to capture clearer images of people and vehicles that are at the edge of the property or on the street, both day and night. My house is on a corner lot and set back about 40 feet from the edge of the road, which explains why the current Axis cameras are struggling given the 2mp & 2.8mm focal length.

I’m trying to determine the best budget-friendly way to achieve my goal, but I have a significant area to cover due to the corner lot. I’m concerned that if I choose cameras with larger focal lengths, I may need need alot of additional cameras. I'm considering using a PTZ for tracking people, along with the other cameras to assist in guiding it. However, I’m unsure how well a PTZ camera would perform for vehicles, especially since I’ve read that they can lose tracking or become overwhelmed with multiple objects.

 

[wittaj]

Welcome!

As great as Axis cameras are, 2.8mm cameras to IDENTIFY at 40 feet out isn't going to happen.


One camera cannot be the be all/see all. The camera to IDENTIFY at 15 feet is a different camera than one to IDENTIFY at 70 feet.

So yes, more cameras than you anticipate are usually needed.

PTZs with motion tracking are a compliment to an existing fixed camera system and not replacements for fixed cameras.

So with only PTZs and no additional fixed cameras - what happens when 2 or more people come up to your house - the PTZ is only catching and tracking one of them, not all of them.

PTZs are not perfect and can lose tracking. Then you miss the person.

What happens when the PTZ is looking left and a perp comes from the right?

That is why PTZs are not a replacement for fixed cameras - they are a compliment to an existing system.

If you rely on a PTZ only it will miss many instances, especially when it is off tracking something else.

You are much better off using fixed cams as spotter cams to point the PTZ to where the action is and then let the autotracking take over from there.

See this thread on how a PTZ compliments a fixed camera system.


This thread is used as the go to for the NOOB here outlining the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value/best bang for the buck in terms of price and performance day and night. It might be a 2MP camera in some instances.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

And coupled with that thread is this great thread which will show why all of the same 2.8 or 3.6mm cameras is the wrong choice:

i-want-2-8mm-cameras-everywhere-to-see-everything-this-is-why-you-need-specific-fovs-with-purposeful-focal-lengths.70053/

We would encourage you to look at those threads in detail.

It will probably raise more questions than answers LOL.

 

[FadeE.]

Welcome!

As great as Axis cameras are, 2.8mm cameras to IDENTIFY at 40 feet out isn't going to happen.


One camera cannot be the be all/see all. The camera to IDENTIFY at 15 feet is a different camera than one to IDENTIFY at 70 feet.

So yes, more cameras than you anticipate are usually needed.

PTZs with motion tracking are a compliment to an existing fixed camera system and not replacements for fixed cameras.

So with only PTZs and no additional fixed cameras - what happens when 2 or more people come up to your house - the PTZ is only catching and tracking one of them, not all of them.

PTZs are not perfect and can lose tracking. Then you miss the person.

What happens when the PTZ is looking left and a perp comes from the right?

That is why PTZs are not a replacement for fixed cameras - they are a compliment to an existing system.

If you rely on a PTZ only it will miss many instances, especially when it is off tracking something else.

You are much better off using fixed cams as spotter cams to point the PTZ to where the action is and then let the autotracking take over from there.

See this thread on how a PTZ compliments a fixed camera system.


This thread is used as the go to for the NOOB here outlining the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value/best bang for the buck in terms of price and performance day and night. It might be a 2MP camera in some instances.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

And coupled with that thread is this great thread which will show why all of the same 2.8 or 3.6mm cameras is the wrong choice:

i-want-2-8mm-cameras-everywhere-to-see-everything-this-is-why-you-need-specific-fovs-with-purposeful-focal-lengths.70053/

We would encourage you to look at those threads in detail.

It will probably raise more questions than answers LOL.

Thanks for the reply. I did read most of those threads, but I do need to go back and finish them entirely. I'm mostly stuck on what the most efficient way is to address the issue. I have 565ft perimeter of desired coverage. With a 4MP 1/1.8 camera at 8mm focal length (that gets me just within identify resolution at 50ft) the FOV width is roughly 30ft. Going down to 2MP would be 25ft. I'm probably missing something here, but that means I'd need an additional 19 cameras to cover the entire perimeter? I guess I'd have to cut down on my expectations if that's the case.

 

[wittaj]

DORI is a nice tool in the tool box, but these are under ideal situations and real world experiences of DORI is that those numbers are established by the manufacturer and are based on best case scenarios like an object not moving and ideal light conditions.

Real world you should cut them in half during daytime and cut that half in half or more at night time.

As an example, our long time resident camera expert Wildcat ran the Dahua 4K/X 8MP 1/1.2" sensor thru the paces. Keep in mind this 4K/X camera is incredible.

He had the 3.6mm version and here is the screenshot from 40 feet in the ideal daylight and standing still, which based on DORI numbers is the supposed IDENTIFY distance for this camera with the 3.6mm lens and I think most of would agree that this is not IDENTIFY quality, even if digitally zoomed in:

I have the 4K/X and 4K/T and they are incredible cameras, but I wouldn't use it for IDENTIFY past 15-20 feet, or half of what the DORI number is.


The ZE (4MP 1/1.8" at 11mm) I wouldn't feel comfortable with IDENTIFY beyond 30 feet, but some are comfortable pushing it a bit to maybe 40ish.


In your situation, you need to pick a few pinch points - where is the most likely place a perp would penetrate and focus on that.

Then as I mentioned above, use spotter cams to help cover the other areas to swing a PTZ to that area to try to capture additional video. You just don't want to rely solely on a PTZ.

 

[FadeE.]

DORI is a nice tool in the tool box, but these are under ideal situations and real world experiences of DORI is that those numbers are established by the manufacturer and are based on best case scenarios like an object not moving and ideal light conditions.

Real world you should cut them in half during daytime and cut that half in half or more at night time.

As an example, our long time resident camera expert Wildcat ran the Dahua 4K/X 8MP 1/1.2" sensor thru the paces. Keep in mind this 4K/X camera is incredible.

He had the 3.6mm version and here is the screenshot from 40 feet in the ideal daylight and standing still, which based on DORI numbers is the supposed IDENTIFY distance for this camera with the 3.6mm lens and I think most of would agree that this is not IDENTIFY quality, even if digitally zoomed in:

I have the 4K/X and 4K/T and they are incredible cameras, but I wouldn't use it for IDENTIFY past 15-20 feet, or half of what the DORI number is.


The ZE (4MP 1/1.8" at 11mm) I wouldn't feel comfortable with IDENTIFY beyond 30 feet, but some are comfortable pushing it a bit to maybe 40ish.


In your situation, you need to pick a few pinch points - where is the most likely place a perp would penetrate and focus on that.

Then as I mentioned above, use spotter cams to help cover the other areas to swing a PTZ to that area to try to capture additional video. You just don't want to rely solely on a PTZ.

Got it, thank you, I was just about to order the ZE but I missed that bit of info. I guess the Z43 S3 would be my best option then. It looks like "cheap" and "PTZ" don't belong together in the same sentence, that one may have to wait a bit

 

[wittaj]

Yeah I would go with the Z4E.

Yeah cheap and PTZ don't go together. Many of us here have bought toy PTZs and that is exactly what they were.

I could have bought one good one instead of 2 piece of crap ones trying to save money.

Someone says here "buy once, cry once" and that holds true with this stuff.

 

[FadeE.]

Yeah I would go with the Z4E.

Yeah cheap and PTZ don't go together. Many of us here have bought toy PTZs and that is exactly what they were.

I could have bought one good one instead of 2 piece of crap ones trying to save money.

Someone says here "buy once, cry once" and that holds true with this stuff.

Just picked up this bad boy for $500 today - Q6315-LE, cost more than my entire setup right now lol. Also going to grab 2 Q1768-LE in a week or so for $250/each, curious to see how they will compare to the Z4E once they're all setup.
.