IVS not catching super obvious activity

[Cj500]

I've had a strange IVS issue with my PTZ from Andy (SD59225U-HNI). I have two IVS rules set up on the entry gate, one intrusion box and one zig zag tripwire. The problem is neither IVS is triggering when someone walks right through the gate. You can see in the screenshot the Amazon delivery guy walk right into the intrusion zone and he even bent down across all the tripwire zig zags and it didn't trigger at all. It DOES trigger properly almost every time when I walk out my front door (on the left), but not when someone walks through the white gate straight towards the camera. Night or day is same issue.

I'm on the latest firmware from Andy after doing proper upgrade process, deleted and recreated 2-5 IVS rules many times in Internet Explorer, super small min IVS target size, auto restart every day, etc. and it still isn't working. I had this PTZ at another house in the past and never had an issue with IVS, so I am very confused.

Any ideas?

 

[JDreaming]

I think from the camera's view the Amazon guy never walk pass the intrusion box and zig zag tripwire line you draw because they are angled like a wall in front of the gate. If he never walk pass that "wall" then no trigger from the IVS. He probably have to walk a few more steps inside to trigger these IVS rules.

 

[d5775927]

1. What are you trying to capture, a person entering the yard or the gate opens?
2. Do you have target filter enabled (IVS rule only applies for a person)?

 

[wittaj]

Too bad that camera doesn't have AI in it.

 

[bigredfish]

I think from the camera's view the Amazon guy never walk pass the intrusion box and zig zag tripwire line you draw because they are angled like a wall in front of the gate. If he never walk pass that "wall" then no trigger from the IVS. He probably have to walk a few more steps inside to trigger these IVS rules.

^^^^^
This exactly.

There is a 3D element to IVS lines. Thats a tough one.
I'd literally open the gate, draw lines extending "out" the gate to a far point say that brick wall/bushes behind him.

SMD would come in handy here, but I dont think that camera has it?

You might get away with old fashioned MD, small spot on the gate?

 

[Cj500]

Thanks all. Correct, no AI on this camera. I’ll try to adjust the ivs lines as suggested

 

[CCTVCam]

The trip wires are in the wrong direction. If you look at the arrows on them, they're looking for side to side movement and vertical movement, when what you have is horzontal back to back movement. What you need is trip wires extending out from the gate to trigger from back to front movement.

 

[Cj500]

I did new IVS rules at the new angles and it still didn't detect today for an Amazon delivery. The person even bent down through almost every tripwire and it did nothing.

Any other ideas of what I'm doing wrong before I have to resort to MD? I have a lot of fog in the local area, so I'm worried MD will be a mess since I only want pushed notifications for real events at the gate.

 

[bp2008]

I believe the camera essentially draws a box around the moving object (the delivery person) and probably watches for some part of that box to travel from one side of a line to the other side. Maybe only the center of the box has to cross a line, or maybe the entire box, e.g. all 4 corners, need to cross the line. Exactly how that works is unclear to me. The point is that in the camera's simplified view of the world, the "moving object" suddenly appears, changes size and position a little, and then disappears after not really traveling very much.

Best case scenario I think as the gate begins to open you'd have a tall but very narrow object detected at the right side of the gate. If you're lucky the camera would initially perceive the motion only here:



But that will very quickly grow to fill most of the area of the gate sort of like this since the whole gate is moving:




So the object may appear to grow wider and its center may move slightly to the left.

Then presumably the gate will stop moving for a moment while the person continues to create changing pixels, so the camera may perceive the object as getting narrower again with its center moving slightly to the right.



And then when the delivery person leaves, the same motions happen in reverse. The box may get wider with its center moving slightly to the left again as the gate moves, and may shrink and move to the right as the gate closes fully.

Anyway you end up with basically no predictable vertical movement and only a little bit of horizontal movement if you are lucky. I think your best bet for a tripwire would be one or two vertical lines roughly here:



And I really can't begin to guess what is appropriate for the min/max size.

 

[d5775927]

You can try this if all other options fail.
Don't set min/max size, you can adjust it later in case it gets trigger by shades etc'.
Also, I think you should only have one IVS rule for that, not sure what happens when multiple rules are triggered in the same time.

 

[bigredfish]

I have multiple IVS lines in most every scene. It's generally better in that it gives more opportunity to trigger one. Not a problem

 

[bigredfish]

You are 100% sure Smart Plan is set for IVS right?

Do you have any Global rules setup under IVS?

Do you have a Sensitivity control for each IVS rule, like my FPS and bitrate, I run 100% on Sensitivity

 

[Cj500]

I believe the camera essentially draws a box around the moving object (the delivery person) and probably watches for some part of that box to travel from one side of a line to the other side. Maybe only the center of the box has to cross a line, or maybe the entire box, e.g. all 4 corners, need to cross the line. Exactly how that works is unclear to me. The point is that in the camera's simplified view of the world, the "moving object" suddenly appears, changes size and position a little, and then disappears after not really traveling very much.

Best case scenario I think as the gate begins to open you'd have a tall but very narrow object detected at the right side of the gate. If you're lucky the camera would initially perceive the motion only here:

View attachment 208307

But that will very quickly grow to fill most of the area of the gate sort of like this since the whole gate is moving:

View attachment 208312
View attachment 208309

So the object may appear to grow wider and its center may move slightly to the left.

Then presumably the gate will stop moving for a moment while the person continues to create changing pixels, so the camera may perceive the object as getting narrower again with its center moving slightly to the right.

View attachment 208310

And then when the delivery person leaves, the same motions happen in reverse. The box may get wider with its center moving slightly to the left again as the gate moves, and may shrink and move to the right as the gate closes fully.

Anyway you end up with basically no predictable vertical movement and only a little bit of horizontal movement if you are lucky. I think your best bet for a tripwire would be one or two vertical lines roughly here:

View attachment 208314

And I really can't begin to guess what is appropriate for the min/max size.

I tried the two ivs lines with no min and unfortunately it had the same issue for people entering the gate. Exiting the gate triggered well at least. Now going to try the zig zag suggestion.

 

[Cj500]

You are 100% sure Smart Plan is set for IVS right?

Do you have any Global rules setup under IVS?

Do you have a Sensitivity control for each IVS rule, like my FPS and bitrate, I run 100% on Sensitivity

Yes, smart plan is set for IVS and it does trigger most of the time when exiting, but almost never when someone enters through the gate.

No global setup tab or sensitivity settings on this older ptz unfortunately, but know of them from my other newer cams.

 

[Mr R Design]

I had a similar problem and I think post number 2 has sussed the reasons why. It works fine when you are exiting because the camera sees you in advance of tripping any lines but doesn't when you are entering.

Give it a try with a single vertical line up through the middle of the gate (or thereabouts) and also a separate IVS rule as a single horizontal line across the middle (or thereabouts).

I used MD to solve my problem on a HDBW3441FP-AS-M-0360B and it works fine for the area in question in my personal situation.

 

[Flintstone61]

Run Code Project Ai on that cam maybe? you on BI?

 

[Cj500]

I tried dozens of different ivs lines/patterns and none triggered correctly more than 10% of the time. Watching replays, the object detection is just way too slow, even for VERY obvious humans (visible head to toe) for 5+ seconds after the gate closes and no minimum object size. The box around a detected human often wouldn’t show up until I was already walking into the front door even when I took my sweet time moving around right in the camera’s view. So odd because IVS (including tracking) worked fine on this ptz at another home, but it was a setup of crossing the camera view, not towards the camera. I use an nvr from Andy, no BI.

I switched to MD with a pretty high threshold and it’s working okay so far. I’ll have to see with rain, fog, bugs, and shadows.

 

[bigredfish]

We haven’t really discussed other possible issues. Is that the “home” at rest preset for the ptz ?

Are you running h.264.h, high bitrate, CBR and what exposure? WDR? FPS?

I’m also wondering about Contrast..try it with a white tshirt…

 

[Cj500]

We haven’t really discussed other possible issues. Is that the “home” at rest preset for the ptz ?

Are you running h.264.h, high bitrate, CBR and what exposure? WDR? FPS?

I’m also wondering about Contrast..try it with a white tshirt…

Yes, it’s the home preset for ptz and because it wasn’t working for basic ivs, I turned off alarm track. So it’s a ptz that just stays at this home preset all the time.

H264, 5076 cbr, 15fps, no wdr, manual exposure 0 to 15ms at night 0 to 30ms day, never IR just bright lighting at gate.

I just tried with a white shirt on and bright orange shirt with the same issue. Other than my 4k-t, I’ve never seen my other cameras so slow to spot and put a box around an obvious human.

This gate ptz ivs issue has been with the same camera, Poe switch, nvr and firmware as at my last house. I then tried the latest firmware from Andy without any improvement.

So far, MD with high threshold has been working very well, but haven’t had a super foggy morning yet to test false alarms. So far, I get one false alarm when my 4k-t auto reboots daily at the same time and its lights turn back on.

 

[bigredfish]

Weird