layout design. POE switches and backbones

F

fastline12

n3wb
Oct 12, 2024
29
5
US
I am working on a layout for a facility with multiple but adjoined buildings. There is no question we will need several POE switches. We will not consider 5e cable. At a minimum, CAT6 will be run. It is understood that cable runs between any switch and a camera or other POE device should be about 300ft. I'm not sure how much wiggle room there is in that? Aside from that, I am trying to assess the data cable runs. Their runs could get pretty long. In one case, a total distance is estimated at 900ft. That includes both any backbone cable and any POE length between switch and camera.

I figure there is going to be a max data rate that is even obtainable in the backbone cable, which I believe is 1G? I'm just trying to lay this out in a best approach method. Everywhere I place a switch, I have to consider it's required power supply.

I was hoping to future proof the build by running fiber switches but price is still pretty high.

We won't have just a single backbone. But my my estimation, we could have 2 main ones with up to 12 cameras each on them.
 
Weird stuff happens after 300 feet with POE.

You would need a midspan, run fiber, or consider a radio nanostation between the buildings.

Keep in mind the data ports in cameras are only 100 Mbps and most are putting out around 10 Mbps, so I think you are overthinking it for 12 cameras. Or even 30 cameras.
 
Are you saying the POE side of the switch, between switch and camera only? I am able to work within that spec, which I understand is actually 100M or 328ft? If I can run a longer backbones which is data only, I can make it all work. Sounds like on the data rate side, no concerns.

I can certainly see POE side concerns as we are asking to move a pretty good amount of power over tiny wires that were never intended for it.
 
fastline12 said:
Are you saying the POE side of the switch, between switch and camera only? I am able to work within that spec, which I understand is actually 100M or 328ft? If I can run a longer backbones which is data only, I can make it all work. Sounds like on the data rate side, no concerns.
Click to expand...
I don't claim to be the final word on this but AFAIK, the limit for data only on Ethernet over CAT-6 is still 100m/328 ft. Many say that they've stretched it further with no issues but I would not count on its reliability. Maybe shielded CAT-6 or even CAT-7 would help with that, IDK.
 
TonyR said:
I don't claim to be the final word on this but AFAIK, the limit for data only on Ethernet over CAT-6 is still 100m/328 ft. Many say that they've stretched it further with no issues but I would not count on its reliability. Maybe shielded CAT-6 or even CAT-7 would help with that, IDK.
Click to expand...
100m is within the standard.
Anything over that is not supported even though it may work.
As for shielded cable, without knowing what this facility is, there may be a need for it regardless of cable length, but it's probably not going to help much with the 100m limit.

If you need to have longer runs, the solution is fibre.
If course this will only do data, not Poe so that won't help with long camera runs unless you also provide external power to the camera.
 
when potentially breaching the 100m limit/between physcial buildings my tact has always been to run pre-term fiber, which adds a level of lightning protection + helps in the case of dissimilar earths etc

Option B is to just run cheap Ubiquity access points something like $400 for a pair.. prob cheaper for the customer by the time you include labor
 
  • Like
Reactions: TonyR
I guess I may need to call my IT guy or get educated on this because I keep reading that as long as you drop into another switch within 328ft, it all starts over.... So NVR out 328 to first switch, then 328ft to second switch, then 328ft to camera. Total run 3x328ft.

I love the Ubiquity radios, and was even considering building a solar unit to power cams on a pole, and pipe it wireless, BUT I need a lot of flood lights on that pole anyway, so it needs powered.
 
oh no you can absolutely can daisy chain as long as it's within that reach, I'd not want to deal with a device at the start taking everything else down (personally)
 
I said one of the options was a midspan lol, but I wouldn't cut it so close to the theoretical limit of 328 feet. Maybe 275 or 300.
 
MR2 said:
oh no you can absolutely can daisy chain as long as it's within that reach, I'd not want to deal with a device at the start taking everything else down (personally)
Click to expand...
I agree and I don't like that a single switch dropping out can take out several cams. I am looking for options in the shop as I type to run dedicated circuits. Probably want to add at least a small UPS at every switch too.

I was first dreaming up bigger switches, but the more I think, if we lose power to that one point, that is a big loss.
 
You can have two switches on both ends and run two pairs of fiber for redundancy. You want the switches to support spanning tree though or there will be a layer2 loop.
 
I've installed close to a dozen Ubiquiti wireless, layer 2 transparent bridges between homes and barns, sheds, etc. since 2013 due mainly to keep from installing any metallic CAT cable between the 2 structures. Lightning here in AL (and FL, GA, TN, MS, SC, TX, LA and more) is so fierce that just a nearby strike can cause catastrophic damage from ESD.

Fiber would be my first choice but oftentimes budget and time constraints dicate use of the bridge but they do what they're intended for very well, no regrets. :cool:
 
I think you should be running fiber for your network "backbone" between the different parts of the building. Fiber is relatively cheap and is much better for these longer runs you might have to have. Use more network switches located in optimum areas of the facility - placing each switch near the devices that will be connected to it. Then connect all of the switches together using fiber.

That is by far the best way to handle something like that IMHO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quiet.tea
Consider designating one closet in a central location as the main distribution feed (MDF). Run fiber from the MDF to each of the other intermediate distribution feed (IDF) locations that cover their respective area(s) within the limitations of copper (CAT6).
 
I believe with some creative work, I can keep all runs under 330ft. I need the remotes switches anyway to cut down on cabling extremes but I am closely examining what all we lose if a particular switch fails. Probably not the end of the world. This ain't walmart. Would be pure chance we have intrusion drama the same time we lose some feeds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom