looking for a security webcam recommendation for this application

[Harry_Caul]

Hello all,
I'm new here and not very familiar with security camera/webcam tech, so I'm not sure whether I've posted this question in the right forum; please feel free to move this to another forum if more appropriate. Sorry about this being such a basic newbie question ...

I’m looking for some recommendations for a (usb based) webcam that can be used as a “security webcam” on a dedicated laptop, that can do the following ...

at 75 feet can read a license plate on a car that is either parked or very slow (apprx. 1 mph) AND importantly that can also clearly see a human face if an occupant leaves the car.

The light conditions most of the time are very near a bright street light (so after dark) and/or when it is very slightly getting dusk (just before the street light comes on) ... so, not exactly extremely low light conditions, but not regular daylight either. I don’t expect the light conditions to be a big problem as there’s pretty decent light there.

The webcam will be located INdoors and pointed out a window so the camera does not need to be weatherproof.

I expect to use an older windows 7 laptop with about 2 mgs RAM and USB 2.0 ... the machine will be dedicated and will have no other software running on it other than some motion sensing, security webcam software (such as ContaCam).

I am hoping to find a webcam that is quite inexpensive ... so ideally not more than about $50 or $60 (or as close as possible).

The most important thing is that the resulting images taken have the license plate number and facial image both detailed, clear and readable/viewable.

From my reading online, I’ve seen recommendations to use a webcam with an optical zoom at least 12x, and a lens that goes up to 12 mm or greater suggested ... however I really have no idea what I ought to be looking for.

A couple examples I’ve seen are ...

Robot or human?

(although I do have my own tripod)
or possibly

https://www.amazon.com/SVPRO-Camera-5-50mm-Optical-Computer/dp/B07MZR3593?th=1

But as I say, I really have no idea what I should be looking for in specifications and features ... totally lost ... any suggestions or explanations would help.

For what it’s worth ... I have been running an other, very similar dedicated laptop with a regular, much older webcam and using the “security webcam” software “ContaCam” during daylight hours at a different location on my property and have been fairly satisfied ... however that setup is no where near adequate for seeing a license plate or faces at that (75 feet apprx.) distance.
(Unless someone has a better recommendation for free security webcam software I’ll likely continue using ContaCam as I’m familiar with it.)

I would be very appreciative of any recommendations as to exactly what specifications in a webcam I should be looking for ... and particularly any recommendations for any specific models.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to get a more complete or advanced security system (ip based etc) and will likely be having to use a setup as I've mentioned.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

 

[CCTVCam]

To my knowledge what you're asking doesn't exist. For night time LPR you need Infra Red, for LPR a superfast shutter speed ie 1/ 2000 and thus high sensitvity to be able to freeze the plate on a moving vehicle. I'm not aware of any non CCTV cameras that can do this. It's a stretch even for dedicated CCTV cameras with only a couple of models really being suitable. Check out the LPR recommendations and threads. Having some street lighting in the area you want to capture may help, but I doubt you'll be able to set the necessary shutter speed and without IR bouncing off the number plate get visible exposure of the plate at those speeds.

 

[TonyR]

+1^^^.

You might get a decent image at reduced lighting and minimal movement with the one you linked at Amazon, given it's 2MP with a 1/2.7" sensor BUT....the IR-cut filter it mentions is NOT switchable at night (open) meaning that supplemental IR lighting will NOT work, so if it can't see under the conditions you mentioned, it's a no-go. Additionally, if you speed up the shutter and open the aperture for more light to capture a plate with even minimal movement, it likely won't be legible.

People on this forum that are successfully catching legible plates at night are using IP cams that cost several hundred dollars but even then, they need to be configured correctly to provide positive results. You can imagine if it could be done reliably for under a hundred bucks then everyone would be doing it!

But if you're determined to go the USB webcam route, give it a go...the amazon description states "free returns" within a certain period, of course.

 

[Ri22o]

For reference this is a 4MP camera zoomed to 12mm. The car's license plate across the street is 75' away.

You can't read it or make it out.

As others have said, what you are asking for is not very realistic.

 

[wittaj]

No chance LOL.

75 feet needs at min 32mm focal length.

And at night forget it.

The "only" possibility might be that 50mm version with a car not moving.

But you won't be able to get plate and IDENTIFY faces with that type of camera consistently.

See this thread that identifies the focal lengths needed for IDENTIFY at distances.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

See the LPR subforum for more details.

 

[Harry_Caul]

To my knowledge what you're asking doesn't exist. For night time LPR you need Infra Red, for LPR a superfast shutter speed ie 1/ 2000 and thus high sensitvity to be able to freeze the plate on a moving vehicle. I'm not aware of any non CCTV cameras that can do this. It's a stretch even for dedicated CCTV cameras with only a couple of models really being suitable. Check out the LPR recommendations and threads. Having some street lighting in the area you want to capture may help, but I doubt you'll be able to set the necessary shutter speed and without IR bouncing off the number plate get visible exposure of the plate at those speeds.

Thank you for the reply.
I guess the license plate may be a tall order ... even if most of the images vehicle would likely be at a stop most of the time.
I'm going to forget the idea of capture a license plate image while it's moving.
I'll check out the LPR recommendations on that thread.
Thanks again.

 

[Harry_Caul]

+1^^^.

You might get a decent image at reduced lighting and minimal movement with the one you linked at Amazon, given it's 2MP with a 1/2.7" sensor BUT....the IR-cut filter it mentions is NOT switchable at night (open) meaning that supplemental IR lighting will NOT work, so if it can't see under the conditions you mentioned, it's a no-go. Additionally, if you speed up the shutter and open the aperture for more light to capture a plate with even minimal movement, it likely won't be legible.

People on this forum that are successfully catching legible plates at night are using IP cams that cost several hundred dollars but even then, they need to be configured correctly to provide positive results. You can imagine if it could be done reliably for under a hundred bucks then everyone would be doing it!

But if you're determined to go the USB webcam route, give it a go...the amazon description states "free returns" within a certain period, of course.

Tony, thank you so much for your comment on the specs for that Amazon webcam I linked.
IR is going to be off-the-table for me ... and thank you for that observation about Amazon camera's IR filter not being switchable.
It's looking like I'm going to focus on the person/facial recognition for the moment.
I'd be interested in any specifications or suggestions.

Do you think that the webcam from Amazon I'd linked might work well enough for facial recognition?

 

[Harry_Caul]

For reference this is a 4MP camera zoomed to 12mm. The car's license plate across the street is 75' away.

You can't read it or make it out.

As others have said, what you are asking for is not very realistic.

View attachment 176982

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide the photo which illustrates a 4MP camera zoomed to 12mm. That definitely shows the limitation of such a webcam, and even in daylight at that.

I'm thinking that the sort of webcam I'd mentioned (in those links) may only be sufficient for the facial recognition part.

I don't know if it's that much "lower of a bar" but I'm thinking that identifying a person (facially and generally) might be more in reach for now.

 

[Harry_Caul]

No chance LOL.

75 feet needs at min 32mm focal length.

And at night forget it.

The "only" possibility might be that 50mm version with a car not moving.

But you won't be able to get plate and IDENTIFY faces with that type of camera consistently.

See this thread that identifies the focal lengths needed for IDENTIFY at distances.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

See the LPR subforum for more details.

Thank you for that focal length estimate ... That's definitely beyond the specs of a camera I'd hoped would work.

It is certainly does appear that I will likely need to consider two separate cameras.

I know that free software called "ContaCam" I've been using on my other webcam called does have the option of using more than just one webcam as input. Though I'm not sure if it is going to be up to the task if I eventually add a second, dedicated LPR camera.

I'd also be interested to hear any recommendations for a similar monitoring/security software (to Contacam) for a windows 7 laptop with a usb webcam that I might consider.
With Contacam, the price is right (free) and is not too horribly technical ... but the hardware side would seem to be the main part of a solution though for now.

From your comment I am gathering that a camera to see faces might be sometimes referred to as an "overview" camera. I'm going to have to concentrate on that. The license plate camera may have to wait.

If you have any input on whether the specifications for that webcam (from amazon I'd mentioned in my original post) might be suitable for getting reasonably identifiable facial results ... I'd be appreciative.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Ri22o]

This is 12mm and 40ft.

This camera is not set to trigger on people on the other side of the road, so I will need to actively monitor to get a Main Stream capture of someone at the 75ft mark.