Natural Gas Generators

[IReallyLikePizza2]

Has anyone gotten one installed? What do you have, and how much did it cost?

In the order of preference I think Kohler is the best, Cummins is second, and Generac is third. However, the Generac units are popular enough I think it may be easier to find parts

Liquid cooled is preferable to air cooled, but almost doubles the cost. Sadly my local Kohler reseller is kind of annoying, so I'm looking at the Cummins units. around $10K for a 22kw air cooled, or $17K for a 22kw Liquid Cooled.

Still trying to decide between liquid or air. I think Liquid would be nice, but is it 7K more valuable than the air cooled? Probably not. They both do the job, and I'm not losing power every week

 

[biggen]

My inlaws and brother in law both have them. They have the LP generac units since they don’t have NG plumbed with the street.

The love them. They have already gone through multiple ice storms and the Gens transferred power seamlessly over with no intervention on their part every time. Theirs are air cooled I believe. 16kw or 20kw range.

 

[mcapeed]

Costco offers a Honeywell 20kw with transfer switch for $4,300. I’m not familiar but is significantly lower in cost.


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[IReallyLikePizza2]

Thats probably not including install though, I would assume

I'll check it out though, I have a Costco Membership. Thanks!

 

[ptzman]

Has anyone gotten one installed? What do you have, and how much did it cost?

In the order of preference I think Kohler is the best, Cummins is second, and Generac is third. However, the Generac units are popular enough I think it may be easier to find parts

Liquid cooled is preferable to air cooled, but almost doubles the cost. Sadly my local Kohler reseller is kind of annoying, so I'm looking at the Cummins units. around $10K for a 22kw air cooled, or $17K for a 22kw Liquid Cooled.

Still trying to decide between liquid or air. I think Liquid would be nice, but is it 7K more valuable than the air cooled? Probably not. They both do the job, and I'm not losing power every week

My power was out for eight days and my liquid cool natural gas 20kw Winco generator did not break a sweat in 90-degree weather. I do not think an air-cooled generator would have survived. Air cooled engines are not made to run continuously. I purchased this generator off of Ebay with less than 300 hours with the transfer switch a few years ago for $1100 plus shipping. My generator has a Ford four-cylinder motor in it. I installed it myself.

 

[ptzman]

My power was out for eight days and my liquid cool natural gas 20kw Winco generator did not break a sweat in 90-degree weather. I do not think an air-cooled generator would have survived. Air cooled engines are not made to run continuously. I purchased this generator off of Ebay with less than 300 hours with the transfer switch a few years ago for $1100 plus shipping. My generator has a Ford four-cylinder motor in it. I installed it myself

 

[ptzman]

My power was out for eight days and my liquid cool natural gas 20kw Winco generator did not break a sweat in 90-degree weather. I do not think an air-cooled generator would have survived. Air cooled engines are not made to run continuously. I purchased this generator off of Ebay with less than 300 hours with the transfer switch a few years ago for $1100 plus shipping. My generator has a Ford four-cylinder motor in it. I installed it myself.

Sorry, I posted in the wrong place.

 

[Teken]

Some things to consider regardless of the brand you decide upon.

• Are there authorized vendors in your local area that carry all the parts.
• Almost all of the newer units must be activated by someone either the vendor / installer / maker.
• Always perform a load calculation so the generator is sized and capable of running what you need vs want.
• Read carefully what the generators specifications are for start up / inrush current and how its handled.
• This is always a good time to consider a model that offers load shedding capability.
• Remote Access: You'll want to confirm if this connection is local first vs cloud first.
• Integration: If Home Automation is important to you research which brands and models offer the same (Open API).
• Install: It goes without saying the install will make or break the product so make sure its done by a reputable company.
• Warranty: These are one of the few things I would seriously consider purchasing an extended warranty on.

 

[guykuo]

We've had both Kohler and Cummins NG generators. The Kohler required a higher NG gas pressure and we had to put in a new gas main and regulator to accommodate its needs. That generator was OK for about 8 years, but starts developing their characteristic RPM instability as they age. Service / install company was unable to correct that despite multiple service calls and replacement parts. The block and generator windings were fine but their controller board is not very smart about keeping it running stable. Nothing is worse than a generator that sometimes works or stalls for no reason.

Ended up going to a new cummins unit which has run extremely RPM stable and is quieter. Not one lick of trouble with the Cummins in last five years and we are very happy to have the NG generator start up by itself in 20 - 30 seconds after grid failure. Entire house is powered by generator. UPS's on all critical machines to keep them alive for the 30 seconds or so for generator switchover.

Attached pict: Left is auto switch over panel that was installed with Kohler. It is still used with the Cummins generator. Right is original circuit box that now handles just a few circuits in the house. White box, partially cut off from full view is one of my camera connection centers.

 

[Teken]

We've had both Kohler and Cummins NG generators. The Kohler required a higher NG gas pressure and we had to put in a new gas main and regulator to accommodate its needs. That generator was OK for about 8 years, but starts developing their characteristic RPM instability as they age. Service / install company was unable to correct that despite multiple service calls and replacement parts. The block and generator windings were fine but their controller board is not very smart about keeping it running stable. Nothing is worse than a generator that sometimes works or stalls for no reason.

Ended up going to a new cummins unit which has run extremely RPM stable and is quieter. Not one lick of trouble with the Cummins in last five years and we are very happy to have the NG generator start up by itself in 20 - 30 seconds after grid failure. Entire house is powered by generator. UPS's on all critical machines to keep them alive for the 30 seconds or so for generator switchover.

Attached pict: Left is auto switch over panel that was installed with Kohler. It is still used with the Cummins generator. Right is original circuit box that now handles just a few circuits in the house. White box, partially cut off from full view is one of my camera connection centers.

That's awesome to see that X10 240 VAC Phase Coupler . . .

 

[guykuo]

Not many would recognize that unit. I've had to take it apart and replace its caps, but it's still working for the few devices that are still X-10. Most are now Insteon. And yes, both lighting control systems work during Cummins generator power. The Kohler was a bit more troublesome in that it would knock out comms for some home automation circuits during generator run time.

 

[Teken]

Not many would recognize that unit. I've had to take it apart and replace its caps, but it's still working for the few devices that are still X-10. Most are now Insteon. And yes, both lighting control systems work during Cummins generator power. The Kohler was a bit more troublesome in that it would knock out comms for some home automation circuits during generator run time.

Been there, done that, right up there with recapping the 2413S PLM!

 

[Teken]

@guykuo,

During long outages if you were able to track what was the consumption like for the new Cummins vs Kohler?

 

[guykuo]

Never did measure consumption. It would vary with electrical load and we basically go on with our lives when the generators were running. With NG fuel source, there isn't the "when will the fuel run out?" monitoring concern as with a gasoline or LPG generator. Several day long outages no longer mean totally spoiled freezer contents.

Only real change with generators running was to turn off exterior lights. Don't want to be that guy with his Christmas lights on while the neighborhood is plunged into darkness.

 

[Teken]

Never did measure consumption. It would vary with electrical load and we basically go on with our lives when the generators were running. With NG fuel source, there isn't the "when will the fuel run out?" monitoring concern as with a gasoline or LPG generator. Several day long outages no longer mean totally spoiled freezer contents.

Only real change with generators running was to turn off exterior lights. Don't want to be that guy with his Christmas lights on while the neighborhood is plunged into darkness.

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

We've had both Kohler and Cummins NG generators. The Kohler required a higher NG gas pressure and we had to put in a new gas main and regulator to accommodate its needs. That generator was OK for about 8 years, but starts developing their characteristic RPM instability as they age. Service / install company was unable to correct that despite multiple service calls and replacement parts. The block and generator windings were fine but their controller board is not very smart about keeping it running stable. Nothing is worse than a generator that sometimes works or stalls for no reason.

Ended up going to a new cummins unit which has run extremely RPM stable and is quieter. Not one lick of trouble with the Cummins in last five years and we are very happy to have the NG generator start up by itself in 20 - 30 seconds after grid failure. Entire house is powered by generator. UPS's on all critical machines to keep them alive for the 30 seconds or so for generator switchover.

Attached pict: Left is auto switch over panel that was installed with Kohler. It is still used with the Cummins generator. Right is original circuit box that now handles just a few circuits in the house. White box, partially cut off from full view is one of my camera connection centers.

Could you give any info on that grey device you have plugged in below?

 

[Teken]

Could you give any info on that grey device you have plugged in below?

Its intended to couple both sides of the single split phase electrical system. This assists the X10 powerline communications to reach end devices.

 

[sebastiantombs]

^^^ Yeah, and they have a finite life measured in a couple of years.

 

[Teken]

The one that @guykuo has in place was the more expansive one as it offered status LED's. I have all three of the various models as they came out but now only use the one depicted here.

Insteon powerline communications is very close to X-10 and thus helps bolster the communications. Given, with the advent of dual band devices the need for a dedicated 240 VAC coupler is quit lessoned these days.

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

Its intended to couple both sides of the single split phase electrical system. This assists the X10 powerline communications to reach end devices.

So it connects your existing panel to the generator power? A bit confused by our comment.