New member looking to replace UniFi Protect with fully local setup

[marceldegraaf]

Hi all – newly signed up to the forum for some advice on how to replace my UniFi Protect setup with a fully local alternative.
Two reasons for this: Ubiquiti's recent cloud access misconfiguration, and the fact that I'm about to invest in a few additional cameras for our new home with Ubiquiti's cameras being quite expensive.

In general I'm looking for the following:

1. Full local integration with Frigate and Home Assistant;
2. No separate NVR needed, I have a Debian Linux server running with plenty of storage and processing power;
3. A doorbell with camera that is supported in Home Assistant (the "button pushed" event, and possibly presence detection);
4. Three bullet cameras with good night vision (via IR). Zoom isn't really needed. All cameras will need to cover an area of about 10 meters long and 6 meters wide (30x20 ft). Preferably black cameras to match the exterior of the house and make them less obvious;
5. PoE is a must for the doorbell and cameras. Preferably with just an Ethernet connector on the device (as Ubiquiti cameras have) but it seems most Dahua/HikVision/Reolink cameras have a "tail" with multiple connectors. That would require me to put the camera on a junction box, which I'd rather avoid. I have very clean holes drilled and wired with Cat6 cable through the outer brick walls.

I ordered a Reolink RLC-811A and doorbell; waiting for those to be delivered. However, given all the comments on Reolink I already found on the forum, I think I'll need to look for an alternative

This thread was a huge help already, especially regarding the CMOS size vs. resolution (thanks @wittaj). It seems a 4MP camera is usually advisable over an 8MP one? The EmpireTech camera recommended in that thread is a turret model however; what would be a good bullet camera alternative for my needs?

Thanks in advance!

 

[looney2ns]

Yeah, return the Reolink RLC-811A if you can.
The Reolink doorbell is the only thing they got right.

 

[bp2008]

I think Ubiquiti is quite rare in how they often put RJ45 connectors directly on the camera, not using a pigtail. It is actually a really nice feature now that you mention it. I can't think of any outdoor models from Dahua or Hikvision which don't use a pigtail. In fact the last outdoor camera I bought with an internal RJ45 port must have been old Acti E77 domes (and they were pretty large and shitty cameras, so ...).

If you choose cameras that support ONVIF, that would be best for interoperability.

Reolink's doorbell cams are one of very few PoE options, as most doorbell cams are made for legacy doorbell wiring and can only use wifi for data. But other than their doorbell cams, yes, Reolink tends to be frowned upon here because they overpromise and underdeliver (particularly in low light), and also because they've had certain compatibility issues with Blue Iris software (in my opinion, relatively minor ones; my brother has a couple Reolinks and they seem to be ... fine).

Here are bullet versions of the popular 4MP turrets:

EmpireTech IPC-B5442E-SE 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Fixed-focal Mini Bullet AI

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor | Built-in IR LED | The max. illumination distance is 50 m | Intelligent monitoring | Abnormality detection | Supports max. 256 G Micro SD card | ePoE | IP67 protection | SMD 3.0

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-B54IR-ASE-S3 4MP IR Fixed-focal Bullet IP Camera

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor | Built-in IR LED, and the max. illumination distance is 50 m | With deep learning algorithm | Supports max. 512 GB Micro SD card, built-in MIC | IP67 protection | SMD 3.0

empiretech01.com

I'm not sure if one performs particularly better than the other, so you should probably hunt for reviews of each. None are currently available in all black, but you can put masking tape on the sensitive bits and spray paint them really easily so I'd just recommend doing that.

 

[bp2008]

It seems a 4MP camera is usually advisable over an 8MP one?

Yes. Although there are some cams using a 4K/8MP sensor that is 1/1.2" in size which performs quite well, neither of those is designed to operate with IR light.

Search: 8 results found for "color4k"

Building security systems for home and business offices. Protecting customers' personal safety and property security. All the security cameras and NVRs we sell are of great quality and at affordable prices.

empiretech01.com

 

[looney2ns]

Some of the the Dahua bullets that come with the built-in junction box has the direct female RJ45 jack.

 

[Alaska Country]

As pointed out above, the Dahua 5242 is one that uses a Dahua provided junction box with a built in RJ-45 connection.

 

[The Automation Guy]

In general I'm looking for the following:

1. Full local integration with Frigate and Home Assistant;
2. No separate NVR needed, I have a Debian Linux server running with plenty of storage and processing power;
3. A doorbell with camera that is supported in Home Assistant (the "button pushed" event, and possibly presence detection);
4. Three bullet cameras with good night vision (via IR). Zoom isn't really needed. All cameras will need to cover an area of about 10 meters long and 6 meters wide (30x20 ft). Preferably black cameras to match the exterior of the house and make them less obvious;
5. PoE is a must for the doorbell and cameras. Preferably with just an Ethernet connector on the device (as Ubiquiti cameras have) but it seems most Dahua/HikVision/Reolink cameras have a "tail" with multiple connectors. That would require me to put the camera on a junction box, which I'd rather avoid. I have very clean holes drilled and wired with Cat6 cable through the outer brick walls.

I will say that generally speaking, the only CCTV cameras that integrate directly with automation devices like Alexa and Google Home are the crappy "residential" grade cameras that aren't worth having. That being said, if you use something like BlueIris for your NVR, you can usually integrate any camera into a home automation systems using MQTT or other communication protocols pretty easily. Long story short, you shouldn't pick your cameras based on automation integration. You should pick your cameras based on the actual camera hardware - ie the image sensor size (get the largest you can afford), resolution (get the lowest that works for your situation), and focal length (get the focal length that matches your goals - just using "wide angle" cameras will rarely produce footage with enough detail to "identify" a subject when needed).

 

[marceldegraaf]

Yeah, return the Reolink RLC-811A if you can.
The Reolink doorbell is the only thing they got right.

Thanks. I'm testing the RLC-811A indoors now, and I've got that working within Home Assistant. Their app works great, I'll give them that. But I can see the 1/2.8" sensor is quite small for a 4K resolution. The night view doesn't seem to great, even indoors, regardless of the 4 beefy IR LED's on the front.

I haven't tested the doorbell yet, but it seems the general consensus is that it's an OK choice to go with?

If you choose cameras that support ONVIF, that would be best for interoperability.

Here are bullet versions of the popular 4MP turrets:
[...]

Thanks for the recommendations. It's a bit hard to navigate all the different camera type numbers and features, but this really helps.

Yes. Although there are some cams using a 4K/8MP sensor that is 1/1.2" in size which performs quite well, neither of those is designed to operate with IR light.

Search: 8 results found for "color4k"

Building security systems for home and business offices. Protecting customers' personal safety and property security. All the security cameras and NVRs we sell are of great quality and at affordable prices.

empiretech01.com

Looking at the EmpireTech bullets recommended above, am I correct in assuming I should be looking for a sensor around 1/1.8" in size, and no smaller? I've found a HikVision reseller in The Netherlands that has this camera in stock, but that 1/3" sensor seems quite small? I may be better of getting something like this camera, with a 1/1.8" sensor?

I will say that generally speaking, the only CCTV cameras that integrate directly with automation devices like Alexa and Google Home are the crappy "residential" grade cameras that aren't worth having. That being said, if you use something like BlueIris for your DVR, you can usually integrate any camera into a home automation systems using MQTT or other communication protocols pretty easily. Long story short, you shouldn't pick your cameras based on automation integration. You should pick your cameras based on the actual camera hardware - ie the image sensor size (get the largest you can afford), resolution (get the lowest that works for your situation), and focal length (get the focal length that matches your goals - just using "wide angle" cameras will rarely produce footage with enough detail to "identify" a subject when needed).

Ah, yes, sorry if I worded that a bit weirdly – that is exactly what I'm looking for: cameras with open streams that can run entirely locally (and also without the cloud-based login that UniFi Protect offers).

 

[The Automation Guy]

Ah, yes, sorry if I worded that a bit weirdly – that is exactly what I'm looking for: cameras with open streams that can run entirely locally (and also without the cloud-based login that UniFi Protect offers).

It's not just the video feeds that you can integrate. At least with BI (which is what I use, so it's what I know), you can also use triggers and events, or change profiles, etc using MQTT or other methods. So it is quite possible to build in some pretty advanced automation..... like changing BI profiles (and therefore recording and notification settings, etc) based on you home's alarm status (home, away, vacation, etc), or trigger automation events on camera motion triggers, etc, etc, etc,

 

[actran]

@marceldegraaf The EmpireTech camera (or variant) you referenced will be a good camera to build around.

For doorbell, Reolink has POE version:

https://www.amazon.com/REOLINK-Doorbell-Security-Diagonal-Detection/dp/B0B7S1HMPC/

Home Assistant has good Reolink integration so you'll have access to the doorbell sensors and configs for automations. Here is what mine (wifi version) looks like in HA:

 

[bp2008]

Looking at the EmpireTech bullets recommended above, am I correct in assuming I should be looking for a sensor around 1/1.8" in size, and no smaller? I've found a HikVision reseller in The Netherlands that has this camera in stock, but that 1/3" sensor seems quite small? I may be better of getting something like this camera, with a 1/1.8" sensor?

Yes, 1/3" is too small for pretty much anything above 1MP, and would only perform well during the day. 1/1.8" is the sweet spot for a 4MP sensor since a few years ago.

Be aware the sensor size is only part of the story. A 1/1.8" sensor from 5 years ago will likely be much worse than one from the last 1 year. Camera manufacturers won't say exactly which sensor brand/model is in each camera so we all just have to guess and look at reviews that compare specific camera models with others.

 

[marceldegraaf]

@marceldegraaf The EmpireTech camera (or variant) you referenced will be a good camera to build around.

For doorbell, Reolink has POE version:

https://www.amazon.com/REOLINK-Doorbell-Security-Diagonal-Detection/dp/B0B7S1HMPC/

Home Assistant has good Reolink integration so you'll have access to the doorbell sensors and configs for automations. Here is what mine (wifi version) looks like in HA:

[...]

Ah, great, I already have the PoE version of that doorbell. Not hooked up yet, but I'll do that in the coming days.

 

[marceldegraaf]

Yes, 1/3" is too small for pretty much anything above 1MP, and would only perform well during the day. 1/1.8" is the sweet spot for a 4MP sensor since a few years ago.

Be aware the sensor size is only part of the story. A 1/1.8" sensor from 5 years ago will likely be much worse than one from the last 1 year. Camera manufacturers won't say exactly which sensor brand/model is in each camera so we all just have to guess and look at reviews that compare specific camera models with others.

Thanks for the explanation. Too bad the exact sensor isn't mentioned but at least 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor is a good starting point

 

[marceldegraaf]

Alright, after another long night of browsing this forum and looking up camera spec sheets, I stumbled upon this thread for the IPC-Color4K-X camera. The thread is a few years old, but the review and other tests in that thread looked really promising. The new house will have plenty of light both on the walls and in the garden around it, which seems to be ideal for this camera (without the need for IR illumination). There's a bullet version (only in white) but also a turret version (in black) available with @EMPIRETECANDY. The black turret installed on a black wall mount could be the perfect solution here. Seems to tick all my boxes

Is this still a camera you would recommend @Wildcat_1 and @wittaj?

 

[steve1225]

As pointed out above, the Dahua 5242 is one that uses a Dahua provided junction box with a built in RJ-45 connection.

View attachment 181691

That were used in 2-3 year old Ultra & specialized cams, which had provided junction box.
But in never versions bullets with provided junction box I see return to big tail with many connections.
Much less problems for Dahua (less risk of water damage etc).

 

[marceldegraaf]

@EMPIRETECANDY will the IPC-Color4K-T (black turret camera) fit the PFB203W (black wall mount)? Thanks!

 

[The Automation Guy]

The full time color cameras from Andy are still very good and definitely recommended if it fits your needs. The one thing you have to keep in mind is that they don't have or work with IR light at all. This means you'll need ambient light for them to work well. If you are going to place these cameras where it is very dark at night, then the IR cameras are probably the best choice still.

 

[marceldegraaf]

The full time color cameras from Andy are still very good and definitely recommended if it fits your needs. The one thing you have to keep in mind is that they don't have or work with IR light at all. This means you'll need ambient light for them to work well. If you are going to place these cameras where it is very dark at night, then the IR cameras are probably the best choice still.

Thanks for the confirmation. Yes, I noticed from the various testing videos that ambient light is a must. But that shouldn't be a problem; our new home has exterior wall lighting all around, and the garden will have ample lighting as well. We'll be able to keep those lights on at night (dimmed as far as these cameras will allow).

The black turret + wall mount have Wife Approval, so that's another important milestone reached

 

[wittaj]

Alright, after another long night of browsing this forum and looking up camera spec sheets, I stumbled upon this thread for the IPC-Color4K-X camera. The thread is a few years old, but the review and other tests in that thread looked really promising. The new house will have plenty of light both on the walls and in the garden around it, which seems to be ideal for this camera (without the need for IR illumination). There's a bullet version (only in white) but also a turret version (in black) available with @EMPIRETECANDY. The black turret installed on a black wall mount could be the perfect solution here. Seems to tick all my boxes

Is this still a camera you would recommend @Wildcat_1 and @wittaj?

Every camera has its place.

The 4K variety cameras are great if you have enough light. But as mentioned, they do not see infrared, so if you do not have enough light or don't want to use the built white lights, then this is not the right camera.

The 4K cameras also make great overview cameras as little light is needed to keep it in color to help paint the full picture.

Further keep in mind that these are fixed lens cameras, so IDENTIFY is limited to 15-20 feet, especially at night.

Also keep in mind that the 4K cameras also show that these cameras are not infinity focus. The 4K/X does better than the 4K/T, but the 4K/T has been shown to have a really narrow focus depth range of around 14-16 feet and anything closer or further away will be a tad soft/out of focus.

The proper focal length for the distance you want to IDENTIFY is more important than MP.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[marceldegraaf]

Also keep in mind that the 4K cameras also show that these cameras are not infinity focus. The 4K/X does better than the 4K/T, but the 4K/T has been shown to have a really narrow focus depth range of around 14-16 feet and anything closer or further away will be a tad soft/out of focus.

The proper focal length for the distance you want to IDENTIFY is more important than MP.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks for the guidance regarding focal length. I think there's one spot in my deployment that may benefit from a varifocal camera and IR illumination, for which the IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 might be a good fit.