New Video Surveillance System for my Store

[kcenter]

Hello everyone, I found this site while trying to rough out a new video surveillance system for my store. I have some cameras that are poor SD quality with a POS recorder with a painful menu to navigate pretty much negating the usefulness of having the cameras.

So what I would like to do is install 14-16 1080p, PoE cameras inside and outside of my building, and I would like them to play nice with Blue Iris. From the research I have done so far that seems to be the best option for setting up my video recorder and controlling the cameras.

When it comes to cameras though, I'm kinda at a loss as to what specs to look for, what are some good brands, and what cameras play well with Blue Iris. I was hoping for some input and recommendations from you guys.

Right now I'm thinking about 5 outdoor fixed cameras with IR or some short of night vision, and one with PTZ that I can set to pan back and forth across my back storage yard.

Then about 8 indoor cameras, also with IR or some short of night vision, and these can all be fixed.

I don't know if bullet or dome would be better, hoping to get some input on that.

Also wouldn't mind some input on a good PoE switch to use with all this.

Also what kind of specs I need in a computer to run everything smoothly. I have no problem building another computer for this.

My knowledge of computers is fairly good (I built most of the computers in the building and our file server) and a decent knowledge of networking.

As far as budget goes I want my building to be secure. I have had some money disappear from the till, and some merchandise disappear both inside and outside of my building. The current cameras are either watching the wrong parts of the building or are not high enough quality for me to tall whats going on, not to mention the PIA it is go find anything on the video with he POS recorder box I have. So I'm ok spending a few thousand on this if that is what it takes.

Thanks in advance!

 

[kcenter]

After more reading I am leaning towards Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I for at least the outdoor cameras. Do they make an indoor version of this came that's maybe a little less?

Also would love a recommendation of an affordable PTZ camera for the back of my shop... Or maybe it would be more cost effect to just install 2 fixed cameras.

 

[Razer]

For bullets I think you are looking at a great option, I use plenty and for the money they are amazing little cameras. The size of those bullets is very small, much smaller than I imagined before I got my first one so they are very discrete.

The domes that are comparable are actually more than the bullets usually.

http://wrightwoodsurveillance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_91&products_id=268

http://www.nellyssecurity.com/cameras/hi-def-cameras/ip-cameras/3-mp/ds-2cd2132-i-outdoor-hd-3mp-ip-dome-security-camera-2-8mm.html

There are a couple of great sources to purchase at for example showing the comparable dome. Basically the same camera but in a dome format. A slightly different option is the turret style dome camera and it is cheaper and has great night vision. The biggest advantage to turret style is that there is no IR shining in the dome where your lens is because at times that will cause a whitish image from IR bleed, or the IR will slightly illuminate the clear plastic dome resulting in a "smokey" image. That can happen with any dome, analog or IP. LTS security carries Hikvision cameras under the LTS brand, but they are Hikvision cameras and they did have better prices on their turret style cameras.

http://www2.ltsecurityinc.com/cmip3032-28.html

That is an example, they were around $140, but prices change all the time. PM milkisbad on this forum, he sells for LTS and is a big help and would be happy to quote you current prices I'm sure. He may well have the bullets too, just ask!


I would use a few fixed over the PTZ if possible just due to cost, you could install 4 IP domes inside for example for the cost of one PTZ camera! I like bullets outdoors and usually use domes inside myself. If you have a large distance to your yard you are trying to cover maybe a couple of tighter zoomed bullets would work for less cost than a PTZ? I just got two Hik Bullet 12mm lens versions from Wrightwood to cover a wide parking area and they actually almost are too tight as the parking area is not that far off, but 12mm zoomed in more than I initially expected for this particular shot. Works out great in the end though.

I have personally purchased Hik cameras from all three vendors I linked or mentioned, and will continue to do so, great success with them all so far. I'm off to purchase more from one of them right now actually....

 

[kcenter]

Wow Razer! Thanks for all the information! So you would recommend something like The CMIP3032-28 from the third link for indoor cameras to watch my show room and merchandise? How do these handle odd mounting angles? My roof is pitched with metal beams and angled metal cross bars. So If mount them to the bottom of the beam the are at a 15-20 degree angle. Either that or I mount the to a wall.

The back storage yard I am trying to watch is about 175ft long and 200ft wide. I have some spare vehicles park at the back and a couple storage containers with extra merchandises in them I would like to keep an eye on, while still watching somewhat closer. So from what you said I am thinking a maybe a 8mm or 12 mm lens versions on each corner of the building with a closer rang lenses in he middle to watch the close to mid range. I do have a bit of a concern about the back of my building tho, I have a motion sensor flood light aimed at where people usually drive when making the loop behind my shop. Its aimed at about 40 feet out. If that kicks on in the middle of the night am I going to get a few seconds of white or washed out video as the camera switches from night/lowlight mode to day mode?


Thanks for all your input!

 

[Razer]

If you have odd mounting angles then the turret style is almost perfect as it is easiest to adjust, basically the entire camera is kind of a ball shape, like a literal eyeball with the tail coming out the back. Then the rest of the mount is just a holder, so you can loosen the holder and grab and adjust the camera by just moving it directly, then tighten the holder back up. Much easier than adjusting a dome where you have to open the cover and mess inside, and much faster and you can get any angle you want within reason.

Sounds like you could get a few seconds of whiter video with that flood light out back while the camera adjusts, but they adjust fast. You can select the time required for switchover from day to night mode in the Hik cameras too, so you might be able to adjust for less time if its truly dark back there to reduce the conversion time. Will be ok depending the falses you get. Still, if anyone is up to no good they will be back there longer than a few seconds so hopefully is not much of a huge issue?

I covered the back parking area at my office with a couple of the 12mm cameras zoomed tight on the cars under a canopy out back, then I also have a 4mm camera mounted on a far corner to give me the whole lot overview. Works out well, lot holds 40 car roughly so whatever that works out too in size, I've never measured it!

 

[kcenter]

Ok Cool. I will start roughing out a list of camaras.

Also, I am also looking to watch 2 cash registers that are 7ft apart (7ft from farside to farside of the 2 cash registers) with the ceiling being about 16ft tall right there. Can I do that with one camera and still keep the clarity to accurately see the bills going in and out? Or am I going to need 2 cameras?

 

[Razer]

I don't have cash to monitor, but there are some good sample shots in this thread showing lens options that might help you out:

http://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php?91-Lens-Comparisons-4mm-6mm-12mm

At 16 feet high you might want to do a pair of 6mm if you want to see bills easily? Not sure without seeing the setup there of course. I realized just now I'm answering your camera questions in the Blue Iris area, I know little of Blue Iris, but lots on the cameras lol. You might get more answers in the Hikvision area of the forum on camera specifics!

 

[kcenter]

good point. I will ask my camera questions over there.

 

[kcenter]

Razer, does Blue Iris handel H.264 compression well? I notice the Hikvision DS-2CD2032-I say they can do H.264/M-JPEG, and H.264 uses A LOT less bandwidth.

 

[Razer]

I do not personally use BI myself so I'm not a good person to go into much detail, but I know that BI handles h.264 fine from a bandwidth standpoint. Where BI can sometime suffer is that BI handles all the motion detection in the software and this results in needing quite a lot of computer to run the software once you get very many cameras.

I personally use Exacq for all of my installs for my company, the software is more than BI for sure, but it uses a tiny amount of CPU so I save the money on the PC hardware and spend it on the software lol. I have 78 servers currently and right around 1000 cameras so low CPU usage is key for those kind of numbers!

 

[No5]

I personally use Exacq for all of my installs for my company, the software is more than BI for sure, but it uses a tiny amount of CPU so I save the money on the PC hardware and spend it on the software lol. I have 78 servers currently and right around 1000 cameras so low CPU usage is key for those kind of numbers!

So, what's the cost?

I have been using B.I. for over 4 years now, and it's a great residential low-cost fit.

 

[Razer]

For a single system setup - $50 per camera and then $10 per year per camera if you want to get continual updates. That includes all apps (windows phone, iOS, Android) for phones and tablets free, a very full featured web client and all. The biggest advantage is I can run 20+ 3mp cameras on a basic i3 with 2gb of ram no problem at all. If the client is closed I'll be idling at 1-3% CPU and if open with 24 cameras up at once I'll be at maybe 40-50 percent cpu.

I have 12 camera systems running on old 5+ year old pentium dual core processors with no issues.

 

[kcenter]

OK. I think I will stick with BI. I already have some of the parts for the computer left over from other projects (I build all the computers for my shop). I don't like the per camera charge.

Also do you have a recommendation for the PoE supplier. I was looking at a 16 port PoE TP-Link switch, but then I made a rough count to the number of cameras I want and I'm around 14. Ones I plug the server in and I plug it into my network I'm out if ports and out of room for any expantion. When I started looking at 24/28 ports PoE switches I was kinda shocked by the price. Only thing I am seeing is Cisco Enterprise grade switch for ~$650. Would I be better of getting a regular non-PoE switch and a few injectors or just bite the bullet and get the Cisco switch?