PTZ advise and expectations?

[Bigbore050]

Complete noob here but I have read the wiki and successfully implemented my current setup, Blue iris monitoring two IPC-HDW5231R-ZE(yellow arrows). My property is out in the country and not easily accessible except from the drive way so that is where the primary surveillance has been focused. But its time to add some capability.

The 3 things on my list are:

-1 Add external IR to possibly reduce some serous white wash from the driveway and pull bugs away from the cameras(I think I have this covered)

-2 Capability to read license plates of vehicles in the driveway day and night. Current 2mps can't get it done and cover the required FOV.

-3 Add cameras to the back of the house mainly for critter watching.





So I'm seriously considering adding a PTZ to the location marked red and maybe adding another at location orange. Cameras would sit on a corner mount to be able to see down each side of the house.

Here is what I would like to accomplish with this camera:
-Monitor back side of the house, Mainly for critters.
-Auto track said critters
-Turn and zoom on drive way/shop if front turrets are triggered and auto track any activity from there.
-possibly catch plates on vehicles traveling down driveway

Here are my concerns:
-The camera will be blinded from white wash either form zooming in on the driveway, tracking a object close to the house, or headlights.
-Premature failure from constant motion.(always seems to me something moving in the back yard whether it is our dogs and barn cats or some foxes cashing rabbits.
-Wife make life miserable due to "big ugly cameras hanging off the hose".

Looking at the SD5A425XA-HNR 4MP or the 2mp variant or something smaller if someone can recommend.

I don't mind spending money on something to help reach my goal but I don't want to spend $800 on a camera that will perform similar to a $300 camera due to location and conditions.

Is what I'm trying to do possible?

Are my expectations unrealistic?

I am also considering upgrading the 2 turrets to the 4mp version and or adding a 4K primarily for LPR duty. This in turn would free up the 2mps for other locations.

 

[samplenhold]

I am also considering upgrading the 2 turrets to the 4mp version and or adding a 4K primarily for LPR duty

I have no experience with the big PTZ cams, but I have been running a couple of LPR cams for about a year now. Maybe @bigredfish or @Wildcat_1 will chime in on PTZs.

DO NOT slate a 4K cam for LPR duty. Not unless that cam is on a big sensor, which would run you a few thousand dollars. There are numerous thread here about LPR, including a whole section devoted to LPR. Here are a couple of my LPR threads.

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

1.PTZ SD5A425XA-HNR is the best one for low light place sure with autotracking, If budget is limited, use SD49225XA-HNR.

2.LPR just use the IPC-B5442E-Z4E if within 100ft, 4K Turret will not work.
check this. LPR For IPC-B5442E-Z4E
But LPR camera can't use as normal using in the night time.
Has this monster ANPR camera, working crazy good if budget is good.

Review: IPC-LPR237B-IR / Equivalent of Dahua ITC237-PW6M-IRLZF1050-B - ANPR, Traffic & Access Control Camera

Thanks for your great video @Wildcat_1 Wooo working very great with US special fw. Looking forward for the night time video.

ipcamtalk.com

From the pics you share, not sure if can get good angle to the driveway or not.

3. The left turret use IPC-T5442T-ZE to replace the HDW5231R-ZE.

 

[Griswalduk]

I think your trying to do too much with too few cameras. You might be able to get 2 or 3 fixed cameras for the price of 1 ptz. They would see more and provide better coverage for all critters wether 4 legged or 2.

Saying that everybody wants a ptz including me lol

Speak to Andy above ^^^^ Good advise and Good service

Good luck with your endeavours

Griswald

 

[Broachoski]

I agree with Griswalduk in that more fixed cameras would be nice. Overlapping views are frequently appreciated. I have the SD49225XA-HNR PTZ and it is fantastic but I rely on the fixed cams more so. I would consider one on the back of your garage/barn/shop and one on the front left of the garage, pointing toward the house and front yard... Just my 2 cents. I use Blue Iris also and love it.

 

[wittaj]

Welcome!

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.



My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you try to just use a PTZ, it will be looking the wrong way. The PTZ will be looking left and someone comes from the right and you miss them.

Ideal case scenario for a PTZ is you have enough fixed cameras installed to capture all of your areas, and then the PTZ supplements it. It becomes another tool in the toolbox.

So the fixed cameras then become spotter cameras for the PTZ and when the fixed cam is triggered, it sends the PTZ to a preset to the area of motion and then an autotracking PTZ takes over and follows the person around automatically - you do not need to be sitting at the controls.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):



PTZs are problematic for LPR because you cannot force a focus like you can the fixed cams, meaning that at the shutter speeds needed to read plates, because the image is dark, the PTZ is always hunting for something to focus on, and then the car comes by and it is in the middle of focusing. You can do tricks like putting reflective tape out there, but then at night that PTZ is essentially a fixed cam.

 

[Griswalduk]

Welcome!

Here are a few guidelines and considerations as you piece something together.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

To identify someone with the 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

View attachment 100775

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed in to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you try to just use a PTZ, it will be looking the wrong way. The PTZ will be looking left and someone comes from the right and you miss them.

Ideal case scenario for a PTZ is you have enough fixed cameras installed to capture all of your areas, and then the PTZ supplements it. It becomes another tool in the toolbox.

So the fixed cameras then become spotter cameras for the PTZ and when the fixed cam is triggered, it sends the PTZ to a preset to the area of motion and then an autotracking PTZ takes over and follows the person around automatically - you do not need to be sitting at the controls.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

View attachment 100776

PTZs are problematic for LPR because you cannot force a focus like you can the fixed cams, meaning that at the shutter speeds needed to read plates, because the image is dark, the PTZ is always hunting for something to focus on, and then the car comes by and it is in the middle of focusing. You can do tricks like putting reflective tape out there, but then at night that PTZ is essentially a fixed cam.

I have seen in your replies here that there is an option for the fixed cameras to act as spotter cams for the ptz. 2 things though......

1 I'm still getting to grips with my new set up and cannot offer any info on how this would be done

2 And no idea of the posters budget

Maybe an option though

Over to yourself wattaj for Good advise as always

Griswald

 

[wittaj]

I have seen in your replies here that there is an option for the fixed cameras to act as spotter cams for the ptz. 2 things though......

1 I'm still getting to grips with my new set up and cannot offer any info on how this would be done

2 And no idea of the posters budget

Maybe an option though

Over to yourself wattaj for Good advise as always

Griswald

Setting up spotter cams in a Dahua NVR or Blue Iris is fairly straight forward. I am sure it is possible with other NVRs, but I haven't tried it except for Dahua OEMs.

With a wide angle overview camera and Blue Iris, you have the ability to create clone cameras, and you would be surprised how many areas you can cover with one overview camera acting as a spotter cam. Before I got an autotracking PTZ, I used one overview cameras cloned 7 times and created what I called the poor mans autotrack LOL.

But I would certainly suggest anyone getting a PTZ to get one with autotrack to take full advantage of the spotter cam getting the PTZ looking the correct way. A $400 49225 PTZ and $150 2.8mm overview cam could potentially cover a wide area to get started and then supplement with more cameras as the budget allows.

 

[Griswalduk]

Sounds promising. I Wonder is it in budget bigbore050

decisions decisions lol

Griswald

 

[Bigbore050]

Thanks for the info. Looks like there is more to LPR than I though so I will have to do some reading.

I haven't really though of a budget. I don't mind spending $1k+ on a camera but I don't want to buy big money cameras that perform the same or similar to a $300 camera.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Where you install the LPR camera? beside the road?
Can use this one if need a fancy ANPR function. The size is a little big

Review: IPC-LPR237B-IR / Equivalent of Dahua ITC237-PW6M-IRLZF1050-B - ANPR, Traffic & Access Control Camera

Thanks for your great video @Wildcat_1 Wooo working very great with US special fw. Looking forward for the night time video.

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Bigbore050]

Where you install the LPR camera? beside the road?
Can use this one if need a fancy ANPR function. The size is a little big

Review: IPC-LPR237B-IR / Equivalent of Dahua ITC237-PW6M-IRLZF1050-B - ANPR, Traffic & Access Control Camera

Thanks for your great video @Wildcat_1 Wooo working very great with US special fw. Looking forward for the night time video.

ipcamtalk.com

I planed on installing on the house facing down the driveway. I only want to capture plates of cars in the driveway.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Then have to check if has such good angle to catch the plates, the trees looks like will effect the camera watching.