Simple BI Questions. Probably obvious answer and just overthinking.

Bonifacio

n3wb
Joined
Aug 18, 2022
Messages
8
Reaction score
4
Location
Pa
In the researching phase of possibly switching to Blue Iris. Have Arlo now and it's whatever. Ended up with it early on because of convenience.
I've found the wiki and checked out the checklist on the BI forum. Not at home right now and the internet here is limited.
No YouTube/Reddit/Google Drive...

Answer seems simple so I'm just verifying. Seems too simple. So all that's needed to start up a BI setup is:
BI Software/License
PC with storage. Whatever amount is necessary for the number of cameras, video quality and length of storage.
Cameras (Amcrest IP2M/IP3M/IP4M) - For the WiFi since I'll just replacing where the Arlo's are now.

Is that all it is? Then just onto setup?

Any must have add-ons or tips for someone a first timer?
Other Camera reccomendations? (Indoor/WiFi/Can be USB powered)
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,218
Reaction score
49,133
Location
USA
Wifi and cameras do not go together. Unless your only purpose is to check on the kids or pets. For surveillance forget about it.

There are always ways if you don't want to run an ethernet cable.

You need power anyway, so go with a powerline adapter to run the date over your electric lines or use a nano-station.

Maybe you are fine now one day with wifi cams, but one day something will happen. A new device, neighbors microwave, etc.

Cameras connected to Wifi routers (whether wifi or not) are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your entire system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent, especially once you start adding distance. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router.

So the more cameras you add, the bigger the potential for issues.

Many people unfortunately think wifi cameras are the answer and they are not. People will say what about Ring and Nest and Arlo - well that is another whole host of issues that we will not discuss here LOL, but they are not streaming 24/7, only when you pull up the app. And then we see all the people come here after that system failed them because their wifi couldn't keep up when the perp came by.

For streaming 24/7 to something like an NVR or Blue Iris, forget about wifi cams if you want reliability.


This was a great test that SouthernYankee tried and posted about it here:

I did a WIFI test a while back with multiple 2MP cameras each camera was set to VBR, 15 FPS, 15 Iframe, 3072kbs, h.264. Using a WIFI analyzer I selected the least busy channel (1,6,11) on the 2.4 GHZ band and set up a separate access point. With 3 cameras in direct line of sight of the AP about 25 feet away I was able to maintain a reasonable stable network with only intermittent signal drops from the cameras. Added a 4th camera and the network became totally unstable. Also add a lot of motion to the 3 cameras caused some more network instability. More data more instability.
The cameras are nearly continuously transmitting. So any lost packet causes a retry, which cause more traffic, which causes more lost packets.
WIFI does not have a flow control, or a token to transmit. So your devices transmit any time they want, more devices more collisions.
As a side note, it is very easy to jam a WIFI network. WIFI is fine for watching the bird feed but not for home surveillance and security.
The problem is like standing in a room, with multiple people talking to you at the same time about different subjects. You need to answer each person or they repeat the question.

Test do not guess.

For a 802.11G 2.4 GHZ WIFI network the Theoretical Speed is 54Mbps (6.7MBs) real word speed is nearer to 10-29Mbps (1.25-3.6 MBs) for a single channel
 

Flintstone61

Known around here
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
6,665
Reaction score
11,041
Location
Minnesota USA
your system can probably get away with a small number of wifi cams. like 2 maybe 3.....But I'm not trying to shoot down best practices of the above posts. pulling Cat5e to a location is challenging to the uninitiated...my Nephews are non-techie and have run extension cords across the ceiling of thier garages and and I drilled a 3/4 hole in a perfectly good garage wall so he could run the power cord....( may as well have run a Cat 5e drop.)
I have an Amcrest wifi doorbell that disconnects about every 60-90 days requiring a removal of the cover plate, and fiddle fuckin around with Wifi setup....annoying AF....The Wyze cam my Sister in law wanted in the garage to get notifications on her phone,,,,works ok...
But not with Blue Iris...Although there is a hack to do so.....Not worth my time...
You can always get started the way you want....and then as you learn, you can ask more questions and move to different hardware as you see the benefits of doing so....
 

Bonifacio

n3wb
Joined
Aug 18, 2022
Messages
8
Reaction score
4
Location
Pa
I understand and agree what you guys are saying.
I just have to do it the hard way. I don't know why, but I do it like it's a hobby.

I already wired USB outlets by the ceiling.
I totally forgot about powerlines / nano-stations.
But even then the WiFi cameras seemed to be the most convenient route even with the packet loss.
Every location is really close to the router. Areas between the router and cameras would never get anything new added.
So I know the WiFi is stable enough in those locations.
Only 4-5 cameras max.
Don't think I'd be streaming anything. Just checking for triggered events. Those recorded events should be good enough for me.
Just a townhouse and all the camera views sort of lay over each other. Little redundancy.

Seemed like the easiest solution without adding more or running wire.
Then I could upgrade from there. Figured if it works, I'll settle for good enough.
But if something doesn't work, I'd be forced to figure out a solution.
Anything that seems could be a hassle would just make me put this off more.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
25,218
Reaction score
49,133
Location
USA
The video is streamed to BI 24/7 whether you are watching it or not.

It doesn't matter how stable the wifi is, with non-buffered video demands, it will bring the system to a crawl fast.

If all you care about is recording triggered events, you will miss events due to wifi - just look at Nextdoor of all the posts where someone says their Ring camera didn't trigger.

Or when there is motion the wifi can't keep up and it records the entire event in a very low resolution.

All wifi and BI will fail you. If you insist on wifi cams, then get the Amcrest ones with SD cards where you can pull up events from that or from the Amcrest app and call it done.

Otherwise you will have a poor experience with BI and blame it, when it is your wifi camera system that is the problem.
 

TonyR

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
16,894
Reaction score
39,318
Location
Alabama
The only way I'd have wireless cams is the way I have them now: a dedicated 802.11n, 2.4GHz Access Point for 3 cams, nothing else uses that AP. Its assigned channel is at the max separation from another 2.4GHz channel in the house. There is no other house near me for about 300 yards and we're separated by dense foliage and trees.

Those 3 cams are indoor, non-critical pet cams (Amcrest IP2M-841's) streaming to Blue Iris and are adequately reliable for their jobs. They take their turns losing signal/reconnecting usually about every 12 hours or so for about 20 seconds which I would not tolerate for an outdoor surveillance cam pointed at my house and/or property.

But for me, this works in my situation: dedicated AP, non-critical application and periodic, short-term video loss.... if any one of those 3 conditions can't be achieved or tolerated, then I also do not recommend using wireless cams. :cool:
 

Ri22o

Known around here
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
2,953
Location
Indiana
I look at my camera system as an investment; let's say the whole thing has cost me $5000. I now have a higher chance of catching the vandals, thieves, stranger dangerers, etc that come around my house and, because of this, have a greater chance of recovering my loss. If I had not made the investment I would likely be out my loss PLUS adding on the cost of the system for the next time it might happen. I have had a couple friends get interested in putting in a system, but it never goes anywhere once I tell them it's more than just slapping up a couple cameras from Costco.

Wired over wireless any day of the week. Wireless, just like Ring, Arlo, etc, has its place for non-critical, non-security uses and should not be the basis of your system.

Would you trust a wireless system to give you the usable footage you would need to ID someone who came up to your house and tried to coax your child into their car?

Buy once, cry once, and get experience and knowledge along the way.
 
Top