Splitting out ethernet only from a PoE line?

[h00t]

First post. I hope I'm in the right place.

I'm attempting to wire PoE cameras for my whole house and have hit a snag as far as the layout. I've done what research I could and I've ended up going in circles and getting confused.

The building has existing Cat6 runs going to wall jacks. I have access to the non-PoE switch and am able to install a PoE injector next to it.

Is there a device that can split out DATA ONLY to the wall jack, but still provide data + power to the camera, AND is small enough to fit inside an electrical wall box? (See pics)

Due restrictions of the property, I'm unable to tear down the drywall, so running all new lines is a no go. Also, there is no power nearby the the wall jack nor the camera to plug in an injector there.

From what I understand, the device in question would have to be powered via PoE and support the 802.3af standard so that when a non-PoE device is plugged in to the wall jack, it will fail the handshake and not receive power.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mark_M]

Something like the Ubiquiti IN-WALL series does have this function.

Access Point AC In-Wall

Dual band, 802.11ac Wave 1 access point with a 1.1+ Gbps aggregate throughput rate that can be plugged into a standard wall outlet. The Access Point AC In-Wall (UAP AC IW) is a dual-band, 802.11ac WiFi access point that can be plugged into any standard wall outlet. The UAP AC IW can reach a...

store.ui.com

It's primary purpose is being an Access Point (AP), so I guess it's a bonus if it provides an extra WiFi AP in your house. An expensive way to just achieve an extra port without POE.
However, it might have functions to V-LAN off the POE port. Securing CCTV from a standard network is important in security.

There is some other versions of these in-wall units from Ubiquiti.

 

[TonyR]

Or maybe this==>> LINOVISION Mini Passive 2 Port POE Extender IEEE 802.3af/at POE Repeater Up to 1000ft Power Over Ethernet Over Cat5/6 Cable, POE Splitter to 2 POE Devices Like IP Cameras, IP Phone, Wireless AP Visit the LINOVISION Store

Small size (3.1” * 2” * 1”), can fit in a junction box.

 

[user8963]

1.
there are two ways of PoE ... active/passive .. also known as mode A and mode B
in short ... Mode B uses spare wires for power only while mode A uses wires for data and power simultaneous

2.
Gigabit ethernet needs at least 4 pairs ... because this is not possible with mode B they made a something like mode A but still call it mode B LOL



Remember... the standard for any poe switch is mode A ... only cheap injectors uses mode B

3.
most cameras can use mode A and B , but use only 100mbit.
As you see above, you only need 2 pairs for 100Mbit , so a full 4 pairs (8 wires) cable can power up and use data for TWO cameras by using mode A (limited to 100mbit max) ... (or one camera and one ethernet port)

If you want gigabit ethernet AND camera over the same cable, you need a small switch, remember... your maxspeed is limited by the uplink to the main switch AND all devices shares the uplink.
also you need an active poe switch/injector (most injector uses mode B because its cheap and simple)
OR a small switch at the end which can use mode B and gigabit.

.........

So if 100mbit is enough you can just use two jacks for ONE cable but only use pin 1,2,3,6 on both ends on all jacks.
If you want gigabit on the ethernet port you need a switch or another cable.
Also splitting the cable to two 2pairs needs mode A switch ,..

To understand/know the difference between mode A and mode B also important by buying stuff like ubiquiti inwall etc.
Most of these devices are mode A only ... so you cannot hook it up to your mode B injector and it works...
the datasheet of the inwall claims needs ubiquiti switch and ubiquiti uses mode A switch for sure...

 

[tigerwillow1]

I'm interpreting the first post as wanting to run 2 devices (camera + something else plugged into the wall jack) on one cat6. There are only 2 ways to do this: (1) A 2-port switch (example 2 posts up), or (2) run 2 independent 2-pair links on the cable. Solution 2 requires a POE switch, won't work with an injector. I have one of Andy's little switches like the one 2 posts up and know it works with mode A. Don't know if it also works with mode B. (The amazon ad says that one will work with both modes).

 

[h00t]

Something like the Ubiquiti IN-WALL series does have this function.

Access Point AC In-Wall

Dual band, 802.11ac Wave 1 access point with a 1.1+ Gbps aggregate throughput rate that can be plugged into a standard wall outlet. The Access Point AC In-Wall (UAP AC IW) is a dual-band, 802.11ac WiFi access point that can be plugged into any standard wall outlet. The UAP AC IW can reach a...

store.ui.com

View attachment 119360

It's primary purpose is being an Access Point (AP), so I guess it's a bonus if it provides an extra WiFi AP in your house. An expensive way to just achieve an extra port without POE.
However, it might have functions to V-LAN off the POE port. Securing CCTV from a standard network is important in security.

There is some other versions of these in-wall units from Ubiquiti.

I'll definitely look in to this! The extra WiFi functionality would actually solve my secondary issue that I was going to tackle another way.

Are there issues with having too many of these around the house? I'm going to be installing 8 cameras.

 

[h00t]

Or maybe this==>> LINOVISION Mini Passive 2 Port POE Extender IEEE 802.3af/at POE Repeater Up to 1000ft Power Over Ethernet Over Cat5/6 Cable, POE Splitter to 2 POE Devices Like IP Cameras, IP Phone, Wireless AP Visit the LINOVISION Store

Small size (3.1” * 2” * 1”), can fit in a junction box.

View attachment 119367

This is definitely a clean hidden solution. In the diagrams it shows only PoE devices being daisy chained. But the specifications do state that it's 802.3af compliant, meaning any non-PoE device should not receive power correct?

 

[TonyR]

This is definitely a clean hidden solution. In the diagrams it shows only PoE devices being daisy chained. But the specifications do state that it's 802.3af compliant, meaning any non-PoE device should not receive power correct?

Correct.

 

[h00t]

1.
there are two ways of PoE ... active/passive .. also known as mode A and mode B
in short ... Mode B uses spare wires for power only while mode A uses wires for data and power simultaneous

2.
Gigabit ethernet needs at least 4 pairs ... because this is not possible with mode B they made a something like mode A but still call it mode B LOL

View attachment 119376View attachment 119375

Remember... the standard for any poe switch is mode A ... only cheap injectors uses mode B

3.
most cameras can use mode A and B , but use only 100mbit.
As you see above, you only need 2 pairs for 100Mbit , so a full 4 pairs (8 wires) cable can power up and use data for TWO cameras by using mode A (limited to 100mbit max) ... (or one camera and one ethernet port)

If you want gigabit ethernet AND camera over the same cable, you need a small switch, remember... your maxspeed is limited by the uplink to the main switch AND all devices shares the uplink.
also you need an active poe switch/injector (most injector uses mode B because its cheap and simple)
OR a small switch at the end which can use mode B and gigabit.

.........

So if 100mbit is enough you can just use two jacks for ONE cable but only use pin 1,2,3,6 on both ends on all jacks.
If you want gigabit on the ethernet port you need a switch or another cable.
Also splitting the cable to two 2pairs needs mode A switch ,..

To understand/know the difference between mode A and mode B also important by buying stuff like ubiquiti inwall etc.
Most of these devices are mode A only ... so you cannot hook it up to your mode B injector and it works...
the datasheet of the inwall claims needs ubiquiti switch and ubiquiti uses mode A switch for sure...

Oh boy. I wonder if I'm in over my head?

I would like to have gigabit to the ethernet, but the problem is I don't have any power near by at the end for the switch.

 

[h00t]

I'm interpreting the first post as wanting to run 2 devices (camera + something else plugged into the wall jack) on one cat6. There are only 2 ways to do this: (1) A 2-port switch (example 2 posts up), or (2) run 2 independent 2-pair links on the cable. Solution 2 requires a POE switch, won't work with an injector. I have one of Andy's little switches like the one 2 posts up and know it works with mode A. Don't know if it also works with mode B. (The amazon ad says that one will work with both modes).

You are correct. I still want the existing Cat6 line to act as normal (gigabit for computers), but then have the PoE+data going off to the camera.

Basically, I'm mounting the camera on the exterior of the house and finding the nearest ethernet cable to tap in to so I can send the data back to the main switch/router, which will then have the NVR plugged in to that for sending/receiving data.

 

[TonyR]

I'll bet the Linovision will fit your needs. If purchased from Amazon, you can return it within a certain time period if it doesn't work for you (may be for "Prime" accounts only, not sure. If you don't have Prime, maybe a good friend does).

 

[h00t]

I'll bet the Linovision will fit your needs. If purchased from Amazon, you can return it within a certain time period if it doesn't work for you (may be for "Prime" accounts only, not sure. If you don't have Prime, maybe a good friend does).

It is definitely appealing. $30 for each vs. the $99 for the Ubiquiti is much more economical ($30x8 cameras = $240 vs. $99x8 cameras = $792). I'll most likely do a mixture of both.

 

[h00t]

Follow up question.

I'm shopping for a PoE injector and apparently voltages are a thing?

I'm looking at this: link here

From what I understand, it's an active injector so I won't have to worry about burning out my Lorex cameras (12V; link here)? I'm using Lorex because besides me, there will be other end users that are, uh...not tech savvy. Ease of use is ideal for them.

So from all of your inputs I'm settling on:

1) The PoE Injector mentioned above
2) Using a combination of the Linovision and Ubiquiti Access Point AC In-wall - to maintain ethernet connectivity for computers and power+data for the camera(s)
3) 8x Lorex LNE9252B cameras
4) Lorex N882A63B NVR

Will all of this work? Did I miss anything? I'll buy you all coffees or something once it's all setup. Dead serious.
What I thought was going to be easy has turned in to a logistical nightmare for me. I'm not a stranger to challenges, I just wasn't planning on dealing with this.