Tips about easy upgrade of old analog system 16 cam/3 mon

Nettulf

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Hi all, a little problem here I hope someone can help with.
Questions regarding the upgrade of an old analogue CCTV system.
Today we have a system with 16 analogue cameras, a video matrix with various interface cards and 3 video monitors with an associated small keyboard for selecting cameras and sequences.
No communication with outside world, no wireless communication, but need interface to fire alarm system, that automatic will change to nearby camera if alarm input is triggered (Normally open inputs, short to ground if alarm)
The question is how this can be upgraded in a simple and affordable way, as there are no longer any spare parts for the old system.
The easiest thing I can see is a switch to analogue HD cameras, there are probably 2-3 different standards. Then connect these to a hybrid DVR. The problem then is how this can be displayed on 3 different monitors, where each monitor must be able to select the camera and sequences independently of the others. If you use a single hybrid DVR or an NVR, you can find someone who can show different images on different video outputs, but i don't think it is possible to have 3 independent monitor outputs? And how should one be able to choose different cameras and the like from the 3 positions?
If you switch to a completely IP-based system, you will probably be able to use standard Windows clients at each position, so that you can select cameras and stuff independently of each other.
The challenge then becomes that you have to use Ethernet over coax devices on both sides, as existing cabling must be used. And there is limited space in the existing camera housing, which should preferably also be reused due to the enclosure (IP 68 stainless steel)
There is also limited space at each monitor position, where there is currently only a 15" monitor and a small keyboard mounted. Placing a Windows client, Ethernet over coax converter, monitor and power supply can be a challenge. A possible solution can then be to place the client in a central rack, and use a KVM-extender for a monitor. Again only coaxial cable out to the monitors is available....
By the way, is there any simple video management software that is well suited for use on a touch monitor? If you can use only one touch monitor out at each position, then it is a big advantage, as there is no suitable place to use e.g. a PC mouse or a normal PC keyboard.
So I would be grateful if anyone has good suggestions for solutions to this. The requirement is that costs must be kept moderate, existing cabling (coax+power) must be reused, and it must be possible to select cameras, sequences and the like independently on 3 different positions/monitors. Also alarm input from fire alarm that changes to correct camera if triggered is a demand. Continued use of existing camera housings is a great advantage, but they can be replaced if the new cameras are waterproof and corrosion-protected due to nearby salt water.

Regards, Jan
 

Pogo

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I would consider a server/client based solution for integrating everything analog into a single management platform for both the control and surveillance / monitoring requirements. Blue Iris would be the obvious choice for such a solution -- perhaps in combination with other less complicated platforms for the independent sequencing and viewing conditions needed at different viewing locations. Several basic viewers come to mind such as TinyCamPro.

Any number of cameras from any number of DVRs can be individually or collectively accessed and manipulated by implementing a very simple ethernet topology. Wi-Fi is also a possible solution if properly implemented and secured, but wired ethernet is the preferred method for the networking component whenever possible and is usually more cost effective. Coax and ethernet can be a very effective combination.

If DVRs are to be upgraded, the hybrid XVRs now available are great for also adding IP cameras if desired -- provided your expectations don't exceed the limitations of the product's actual capabilities.

Others will certainly chime in with their own observations and suggestions. As with mine, take them all with a grain of salt until they begin making sense for your particular set of needs and circumstances.
 

Nettulf

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Thx for your reply.
The key here is to keep it as simple as possible. Today the only function is to either select to view 1 camera, or have a sequences that change between all cameras or some selected. And the alarm input must force all 3 monitors to the triggered camera.
So it is no recording, no wireless, no apps and no need to expand or control this remotely. It is in a boat, so it is a completely Closed-Circuit TeleVision ;)
I think the easiest solution is to change all cameras to a type of analog HD cameras and connect them to a hybrid DVR. But if no recording is needed, is there another type of unit I can connect cameras to? The old system have a video matrix, the basic need is only to choose a camera and display it at 3 different location. And ofc. be possible to have different camera selected at the different monitors.
And that is the next problem. If i connect cameras to a hybrid DVR we have recording, and it is possible to connect a monitor, keyboard and mouse to the DVR to control and display all the cameras as you want. But how to do that at 3 different locations, and independent of each other? I guess here we need some type of computer clients, that can connect to the network from the DVR and get the camera streams from there?
It is important that the user interface at the 3 different monitor location is simple, as in only choose camera from a list of number, and start/stop pre programmed camera sequences. It is not so great possibilities to use a normal PC keyboard and mouse at this location, so a small control keyboard or touchscreen functionality would be best.
 

Nettulf

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And just remembered another thing. How long can we expect that some major brands still make analog HD camera/recorders? I know more and more move over to IP-based now, and it is stupid to upgrade to something that is obsolete after a short period...
But the upgrade to a complete IP based system here without changing the cables will need lots of media converters and stuff, so it is more demanding. And to change the cabling is very hard at this system, so nothing to consider at the moment.
 

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Major manufactures will continue to make DVRs as long as their is coaxial cable. Some of the newer DVRs are quite capable and obviously designed to accommodate all of the common analog standards. This makes interoperability among different brands of cameras a non-issue and greatly enhances the options when shopping for replacements. The newer HD analog cameras are also quite capable and look great within their intended realm of operation. And they're very inexpensive.

I just recently purchased one of these to upgrade my legacy analog system. There is also a 16 channel version. Very capable units with a fast and simple app for both Android and iOS. I tested several and the Amcrest was head and shoulders superior to all of them, though was also bit more expensive. Not needing a hard drive will certainly keep the cost down.

They also have a significant YouTube presence that may be helpful in your search for information and ideas. There are many videos addressing their analog technology as well as their later hybrid technology.
If your existing monitor switching is sound and is intended to remain but simply use a new triggering method, a DVR without a HDD and a few new cameras may be all you need.

And for something else to consider: tinyCam Monitor | Home I use it as a remote monitoring tool on a Firestick and two AndroidTV devices. It works well for the price!
 
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Pogo

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BTW, I'm not necessarily pushing Amcrest (which is basically an American company.) They just represent a good example of the types of considerations you are facing.

Dahua is the global OEM that is probably the prevailing leader of the same basic products in Europe (along with others not familiar to the U.S. market).
 

Nettulf

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I just recently purchased one of these to upgrade my legacy analog system. There is also a 16 channel version. Very capable units with a fast and simple app for both Android and iOS. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09V1XZ41F?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_asin_titleI tested several and the Amcrest was head and shoulders superior to all of them, though was also bit more expensive. Not needing a hard drive will certainly keep the cost down.
Don''t seem to have alarm inputs at this one, and 16 alarm inputs is a demand.

If your existing monitor switching is sound and is intended to remain but simply use a new triggering method, a DVR without a HDD and a few new cameras may be all you need.
No, everything needs to be changed I'm afraid. So to select witch camera to show on witch monitor is still a thing to figure out.

And for something else to consider: tinyCam Monitor | Home I use it as a remote monitoring tool on a Firestick and two AndroidTV devices. It works well for the price!
I guess this is mostly wireless connections, and that is a no go on this system. Only cables and no app on cellphone or similar.

Regarding the Amcrest brand in your last post, it is not important for me what brand it is. But it needs to be some brand that is possible to buy at a company here in Norway, and not only online stores like Ebay/Amazon.
 
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Pogo

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You have some very rigid self-imposed limitations on finding any realistic options beyond what you already have in place.

Perhaps consulting with companies in Norway who can assist you on site would be more effective in sourcing a solution than simply asking questions online.
 

Nettulf

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Yes it is not so easy, but can not go into details. We have a company that have upgraded other systems, but it is insane expensive and will require a long and difficult project to have this done.
They use only that company's own equipment, and it is very specialized. (And IP systems)
I hope to find a way faster and cheaper solution, that can make it possible to do at a "maintenance budget" instead of a project that needs funding.

Does the companies that produce this equipment have any advice or support department we can ask for advice about what kind of units that can work? Like Dahua, Hikvision, Pelco etc.?
I know we can get support for stuff we already have and more specific things, but would be nice if they can suggest something that will work as requested.

The problem is that most of the companies I know about locally is all in at IP based CCTV, so it is hard to find any of the larger companies with support for analog systems.
I can find companies and stores that sell this, but not with support and knowledge about a complete system.
 
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