Why, why cant all the cameras just get along?

[TheWingman2067]

In short.
I decided to upgrade my Lorex 8ch NVR to the new Hybrid Lorex 16ch NVR.
Biggest mistake.
This was not plug n play at all.
The only cameras that were plug n play were the 2Lorex cameras and a few other non name brand cameras.
I had to fight with the PTZ to get it to work on a few of them.
But my main question here is: Why did I have to lower my Main Stream resolution to 720k on the NVR in order for me to be able to view the camera on the NVR?
Example is, a camera is capable of going 2592x1944, but when it is that high nothing shows up on the NVR.
Of course Lorex support will not help with cameras that are not theirs.
I have 4 cameras that are now set to a measly 720 when they can go so higher.
And don't get me going on the PTZ feature.
If I try to PT on one camera it goes crazy, and never turns off, it keeps moving back n forth.
I have to go to a separate application or via the web interface and stop it.
I am ready to take a gamble at another NVR that is not a Name Brand.
So I am trying to move forward with technology and upgrades and it only goes backwards for video quality and support.
And If LOREX would make a decent camera with all the features I want, I would buy them and be done with it.
But lets face it, no company does that, and if they do, I cant afford the prices, like FLIR!
I have 2 of these: MC500L_AF, they are a 5x PTZ. They were just around $100. but I bought two because they are great all around.
The optical and HD factor are great
The night vision is fantastic
all the features including Audio.
The only one thing I do not like is that I cant get this camera with a more optical zoom. 5 is ok, but 20x would be fantastic!
This is the camera that I have to lower to 720. And it was a fight to get the PTZ part to work

 

[bigredfish]

Probably because the NVR has a limit on incoming bandwidth which you otherwise are exceeding. We'd have to see the detail specs of your NVR AND the cameras to be sure, but willing to bet a beer or two on it.

Not all NVRs are equal in performance, nor are PCs, Cars, etc. Dahua for example sells many dozens of different NVRs with various capabilities at different price points.

As to the PTZ and camera functionality issues, most brands of NVRs work best with that brands cameras. Mix and matching can often produce issues with functionality.

 

[wittaj]

+1 above.

The budget NVRs are rated at 80-88Mbps bandwidth, which can be consumed very quickly.

Even with the top of the line NVRs, many people here have to run multiple NVRs in their home just to run a modest number of higher MP cameras. Or do as you did and downrez the camera.

Up until recently LOREX was owned by Dahua, so it is usually decent stuff for consumer grade, but quality sensors and materials were stripped from it to sell it at the lower price points.

And then some of the Lorex stuff is proprietary as well.

Unless you want to stay in the consumer, big box brands and their proprietary platforms, do not buy anything that doesn't say ONVIF compliant.

But even then it still may not work with other brands.

And then when you add a PTZ to the mix, it may only work with the same brand gear.

So you say the MC500L_AF is great - is that looking at static images? Any camera can give a nice bright static image at night.

What does it look like at night? Can you freeze frame someone walking around and be able to ID who it is or is it a ghost blur?

 

[TheWingman2067]

+1 above.

The budget NVRs are rated at 80-88Mbps bandwidth, which can be consumed very quickly.

Even with the top of the line NVRs, many people here have to run multiple NVRs in their home just to run a modest number of higher MP cameras. Or do as you did and downrez the camera.

Up until recently LOREX was owned by Dahua, so it is usually decent stuff for consumer grade, but quality sensors and materials were stripped from it to sell it at the lower price points.

And then some of the Lorex stuff is proprietary as well.

Unless you want to stay in the consumer, big box brands and their proprietary platforms, do not buy anything that doesn't say ONVIF compliant.

But even then it still may not work with other brands.

And then when you add a PTZ to the mix, it may only work with the same brand gear.

So you say the MC500L_AF is great - is that looking at static images? Any camera can give a nice bright static image at night.

What does it look like at night? Can you freeze frame someone walking around and be able to ID who it is or is it a ghost blur?

SO the New Lorex is Model Numbers: N845A62, N845A62-F
And like I stated, everything was working just dandy with the older NVR 8ch.
Everything was Plug n Play. PTZ, FULL HD, no glitches, no streaming issues, nothing, it worked great.
Same goes for that MC500L camera. Yes everything about it was crystal clear and full HD. No ghost at all, and nighttime lic plates.
I had an issue where some kid, lost or drunk, drove into our driveway at night (I live on a dead end) and he ended up doing a 3 point turn in my drive way hitting my wife's car.
Well that camera picked up the lic plate and every detail in his face behind the wheel so the cop had all the evidence he needed.
That cop was amazed at how clear it was, at night and a far distance.
Ya, I know Lorex is now back in China.. that may explain all my issues.
I ended up getting all of my cameras up and running, after hours of applying changes over and over and logging the info.
I saved a config backup file as well.

 

[wittaj]

I am guessing that one of the Lorex systems you bought was what would be a kinda proprietary system. It may work with something else but most would give up and just go back within the same model.

Could you please post that example from the MC500L - I recognize that being in a driveway the car comes to a stop and all that stuff, but we are all interested if a cheaper camera can provide comparable video. Many here would love to pick up a cheaper PTZ or two.

I haven't tried that brand, but have tried many others and they all just couldn't cut it.

 

[Sybertiger]

That was one of my concerns about going with an NVR. Either locking myself into a camera brand or locking myself into certain model support. Blue Iris seemed to provide a more open approach to different brands and generations of cams.

 

[TheWingman2067]

I am guessing that one of the Lorex systems you bought was what would be a kinda proprietary system. It may work with something else but most would give up and just go back within the same model.

Could you please post that example from the MC500L - I recognize that being in a driveway the car comes to a stop and all that stuff, but we are all interested if a cheaper camera can provide comparable video. Many here would love to pick up a cheaper PTZ or two.

I haven't tried that brand, but have tried many others and they all just couldn't cut it.

Sure thing, when I get home. At work now. I can post those pics of the drunk driveway dummy.
BTW, there is not much support with that particular camera considering it is all China. But short story.
When I got the new Lorex NVR and the PTZ was not working I made the silly mistake of thinking that the firmware upgrade would help that camera.
I found the update, and after the reboot, the PTZ function was gone.
Its a good thing I had 2 to compare with and only upgraded one.
I was using HTTP to view the settings and compare. After a few weeks and talking with support, I decided to look for the old firmware and pray.
It worked. PTZ came back and was now working like the other one and on the NVR.
So I went back and replied to the China support and informed them how to fix their own cameras.

 

[TheWingman2067]

That was one of my concerns about going with an NVR. Either locking myself into a camera brand or locking myself into certain model support. Blue Iris seemed to provide a more open approach to different brands and generations of cams.

I have heard of Blue Iris for years but never went down that road.
I guess its cheaper than trying another 16ch NVR.
I have a few spare gaming computers that I can set up as the NVR.
Maybe this winter I will make that my project. Any suggestions on that I would greatly appreciate.
A buddy of mine bought an Amcrest 4K POE 8ch, 4 cameras, 2 tb system. He spent $560 for it last year and never installed it, He was waiting for me to call him to "help". LOL.. so now he is moving and offered the uninstalled system for $400. I think I'm gonna grab it just our of curiosity on the NVR. I heard that Amcrest is not 3rd party friendly At All.

 

[wittaj]

I have heard of Blue Iris for years but never went down that road.
I guess its cheaper than trying another 16ch NVR.
I have a few spare gaming computers that I can set up as the NVR.
Maybe this winter I will make that my project. Any suggestions on that I would greatly appreciate.
A buddy of mine bought an Amcrest 4K POE 8ch, 4 cameras, 2 tb system. He spent $560 for it last year and never installed it, He was waiting for me to call him to "help". LOL.. so now he is moving and offered the uninstalled system for $400. I think I'm gonna grab it just our of curiosity on the NVR. I heard that Amcrest is not 3rd party friendly At All.

Amcrest and Lorex are both Dahua OEM (using lessor quality sensors and materials), so it will look somewhat familiar. Lorex now is no longer owned by Dahua, but I do not believe anything non Dahua OEM is on the market yet. The Amcrest is probably 1/3" or 1/2.8" sensors which will suck for night on 4K.

 

[Nightcrawler2067]

I have a few pictures of the MC500L camera, that wittaj requested.
Keep in mind that the one camera that I upgraded the firmware, and it broke it, so I had to go back on the firmware, that one has the "DAY" as Chinese words and it will not go away.
The other shows the day in engrish! and I did not upgrade that one.
That camera I have the back yard tree line, total darkness, you can see the IR spotlight. And then the back yard with the shed/lawnmower. There is a smudge on the camera bottom right just before the time, so that looks a little blurry. I need to get up there and clean it.
Also, since I took some screenshots form the NVR, that is stuck at 720. It's the only way that NVR will view them. So I went to the web app and that is the HD version. There are all night vision as you can tell.
The other MC500l, showing the Gazebo and the pool is the same, 720, and that one I cant use the WEB because it is directly plugged into the NVR. Different IP.

 

[wittaj]

What we are looking for are examples with motion at night - any camera can look good with no motion and a static image on default/auto settings - ability to freeze frame motion is what we are interested in!

For example the video and/or images of the drunk driveway dummy you caught.

 

[Flintstone61]

I have heard of Blue Iris for years but never went down that road.
I guess its cheaper than trying another 16ch NVR.
I have a few spare gaming computers that I can set up as the NVR.
Maybe this winter I will make that my project. Any suggestions on that I would greatly appreciate.
A buddy of mine bought an Amcrest 4K POE 8ch, 4 cameras, 2 tb system. He spent $560 for it last year and never installed it, He was waiting for me to call him to "help". LOL.. so now he is moving and offered the uninstalled system for $400. I think I'm gonna grab it just our of curiosity on the NVR. I heard that Amcrest is not 3rd party friendly At All.

I use an amcrest 8 ch NVR as you describe..,,,,,with Hikvision,Empiretech, and Amcrest cams, But i also import them into BI.....
It chokes after about 6 cams...maybe 7 if you cut the stream rates back..and other things....
it's ok.....I do that so my simple folk can use the Amcrest view pro app to see the live views.

 

[Nightcrawler2067]

What we are looking for are examples with motion at night - any camera can look good with no motion and a static image on default/auto settings - ability to freeze frame motion is what we are interested in!

For example the video and/or images of the drunk driveway dummy you caught.

 

[Nightcrawler2067]

I just realized that this particular camera is a MorphXstar 10X zoom only not PT

 

[wittaj]

So you certainly benefit from a camera angle most of us don't have - is this camera on a tree branch or other support above what appears to be your driveway is this a private road?

At the slow speed, once the plate got past the IR blast, you are able to get a quick glance at the plate:



And then after the headlights are under the camera, you get a quick look at the occupant:



Not many have that field of view and opportunity. @Flintstone61 is close to that at the Condo - were you ever able to get occupant in your videos?

 

[Flintstone61]

on the 6mm 5442, before the telephone pole with the light on it fell down....yes...probably not that good on the face....

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Hybrid XVR is not good at all, the only good point is to use those old analog cams, have low bandwidth on those XVR. But sometimes it's hard for the users to drop the old analog cams.
Have some good XVR but price are bit higher, lorex users love too much on those cheap 4k cams, they use lots of bandwidth.