Separate IVS Rules for Cloned Spotter Camera - Is it possible?

[Alaska Country]

Using BI (5.7.7.18) with a Dahua PTZ and a Dahua spotter (5242) cam. The PTZ Web 5 camera IVS rules are set for people detection only. The spotter IVS camera rules (Web 4) are set for both people and vehicle.

When the spotter cam triggers, the PTZ zooms into the end of the street and follows either a person or a vehicle as the spotter is set for both trigger functions. (people are OK but do not want to trigger the PTZ for vehicles)

The desired outcome is to have the spotter continue IVS for both people and vehicles. However, the PTZ should NOT trigger for vehicles but only people when activated by the spotter.

Tried a clone of the spotter cam, but there is apparently no way to use a different set of camera IVS rules. (1 set for the PTZ - 1 different set for the spotter - 1 set for the spotter clone if the cone is to be used in this scenario)

The only apparent options are to use BI trigger motion sensor rules that do not filter people or vehicles. Thus no way to have the spotter cam trigger the PTZ for people only when the spotter is set for both vehicles and people.

Any solutions besides adding one of the AI detection programs to the BI computer?

 

[wittaj]

It isn't possible yet but is getting close.

5.7.7 - May 24, 2023

5.7.7 - May 24, 2023 In order to reduce the chance for inadvertent configuration errors, this version enforces the use of required settings when dual-streaming is employed. Specifically, direct-to-disk recording, a pre-trigger buffer of at least 5 seconds, and no “limit decoding.” Whenever the...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[bigredfish]

On an NVR you would simply set a separate IVS rule as each rule can be configured whether or not to activate the PTZ

 

[wittaj]

On an NVR you would simply set a separate IVS rule as each rule can be configured whether or not to activate the PTZ

The only thing an NVR has an advantage over BI (for the moment)

 

[Alaska Country]

Glad to hear that BI will have this capability sometime in the future. Any guess as to when this new feature will roll out?

In the meantime, will deactivate the use of the spotter cam until this new feature is made available.

Thanks for the heads up....

 

[wittaj]

We had hoped to have figured it out when this feature came out in May but there are still bugs

 

[Alaska Country]

Good to see that there is activity on the issue. It takes time to solve all of the problems. Will be looking forward to implementation when it is ready for prime time. No rush.

 

[Mike A.]

It's a little complicated and somewhat limited but I think that you can now distinguish different rule triggers from the cam by limiting what ONVIF triggers are active on the clone. e.g., If you made a rule that's a tripwire on the cam with human target only selected, then you should be able to only check that ONVIF event under Trigger > ONVIF/camera events > Configure. You can look in the logs to see that BI distinguishes the types of events and how they're named. e.g., ONVIF Event: RuleEngine/LineDetector/Crossed for a tripwire. RuleEngine/FieldDetector/ObjectsInside (IsInside="true") for intrusion box. Etc. I did a quick test a while back and that did seem to work. Been intending to try it more but don't have a real need so haven't gotten back to it yet. You can also add your own events and there's a "contains" and under Action:Trigger selections for "Confirmed person" and "Confirmed vehicle" that might be able to be used in some conditional way but didn't try that. I don't see that the cam passes "Human" or "Vehicle" that could be used.

 

[Alaska Country]

Give the ideas a try and no joy. Did not use a clone camera. Did use the PTZ and spotter camera to move the PTZ to the correct preset when triggered by the spotter.

Setup the PTZ with IVS target filter for humans and the spotter IVS target filter for both humans and vehicle. Used the instructions as in the posted below link.

Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to. Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and...

ipcamtalk.com

As noted in post #1, the same action is occurring. i.e. Spotter fires PTZ on both human and vehicle. The desired action is PTZ humans only.

In the PTZ "ONVIF Events" in the "Listen For" box uncheck all profiles. Saved OK - OK. The result is that the PTZ was activated by the spotter cam for either or human and vehicles with the PTZ using the correct presets. Check or uncheked (red X or green check mark) did not appear to have an influence on this scenario.



Added one "Listen For" profile with "Confirmed Person" in the PTZ with only this profile active. Again, no filtering out the spotter cam vehicle trigger.

 

[Mike A.]

Think I misunderstood and overcomplicated what you're trying to do.

You want to have a spotter cam move the PTZ to a preset position when both vehicles or humans are detected? Then you want the PTZ to only track humans after being moved to that position?

If so, then the spotter just moves the cam to whatever preset based on its IVS rules. It doesn't care or control what the PTZ tracks once there.

What the PTZ tracks once moved is dependent on its IVS rules. So if you set whatever rule on the PTZ to only track humans, then it shouldn't track vehicles once moved to that position by the spotter.

 

[bigredfish]

And with a tracking time set of say 1-2 minutes, if the ptz doesn’t see a human with its human IVS rule, it would simply return to its home position.

 

[Alaska Country]

The IVS target filters for the spotter cam (cul-de-sac) are set to trigger on both vehicles and humans and to record both of these actions.



The PTZ IVS target filters are set to trigger only on humans and record and follow when triggered with two presets. One being a wide view (preset 1).



The other PTZ preset (2) is a zoom view of the cul-de-sac.



Desired Goals

1) Both cameras will independently record when triggered based on their individually set IVS target filter settings of human and/or vehicle.

2) When a vehicle triggers the spotter cam (cul-de-sac) that camera WILL trigger.

3) When a human triggers the spotter cam (cul-de-sac) that camera WILL trigger.

4) When a vehicle triggers the spotter cam (cul-de-sac) that camera WILL trigger and the PTZ will NOT trigger.

5) When a human triggers the spotter cam (cul-de-sac) that camera WILL trigger and the PTZ WILL ALSO trigger and move to preset 2 (zoom view) and follow.

6) Coming from the other direction PTZ first (from PTZ to cul-de-sac direction). The PTZ will NOT trigger or record a vehicle.

7) Coming from the other direction PTZ first (from PTZ to cul-de-sac direction). The PTZ will WILL trigger and record a human and follow. Plus return to preset 1 (wide view) when trigger ends.

Non Desired Conditions

When a vehicle or human triggers the spotter cam (cul-de-sac) that camera WILL trigger and WILL ALSO move the PTZ to preset 2 (zoom view) and record and follow with the PTZ. When trigger ends, PTZ returns to preset 1 (wide view).

i.e. the PTZ should NEVER be triggered on a vehicle.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah that functionality isn't quite there yet in BI.

So you either do what @Mike A. suggested and have the PTZ move for the spotter cam on either person or vehicle trigger, but only have the autotracking in the PTZ set up for human. Depending on your field of view, that may be a lot of unnecessary moving of the PTZ.

Or add a camera just triggering on people to use as the spotter cam. That is what I am doing now, so when this feature finally starts working the way we want it to, I can eliminate a few cameras!

Who am I kidding, I will just repurpose them to other uses LOL.

 

[Mike A.]

Can you not:

• Have your spotter cam trigger itself to record vehicles/humans. It is not set to move the PTZ. (Meeting conditions 2, 3, and 4.)
• Make a clone of the spotter cam and set the IVS rules in it to only trigger on human. It is set to move the PTZ. (Meeting condition 5.)
• Set the PTZ IVS for both presets to only trigger/track humans. (Meeting conditions 6 and 7.)
• Return is handled as above.

 

[wittaj]

Can you not:

• Have your spotter cam trigger itself to record vehicles/humans. It is not set to move the PTZ. (Meeting conditions 2, 3, and 4.)
• Make a clone of the spotter cam and set the IVS rules in it to only trigger on human. It is set to move the PTZ. (Meeting condition 5.)
• Set the PTZ IVS for both presets to only trigger/track humans. (Meeting conditions 6 and 7.)
• Return is handled as above.

I haven't played around with it enough yet, but when I have tried to do as you suggested in Post #8 it would not work consistently.

And there are hacks to have to do with the 5442 camera that my spotters are.

 

[Alaska Country]

Will have to put this project to bed and wait for the BI update that will facilitate the desired scenario. Thought that the "Listen For" box would have possibilities but that is not the case.

Yes, a second cam only set for humans as a spotter would work. However, the person hosting the camera would rather not have an additional camera added at this point. So will use the original plan of not using a spotter to move the PTZ. That will work fine.

 

[Alaska Country]

Make a clone of the spotter cam and set the IVS rules in it to only trigger on human. It is set to move the PTZ. (Meeting condition 5.)

Did try the clone approach. However, there is no way that I have found, to add a second set of IVS target filter rules to a cloned 5242 Dahua camera. That would be a nice plus for sure. Thus the clone would only target humans and move the PTZ to preset 2.

At present, there appears to be no filter in BI to distinguish between different IVS target filters (human vs vehicle) to perform certain desired actions. Once the camera IVS target filter rules are set, BI fatefully obeys and can not distinguish one filter from the other.

 

[Mike A.]

I haven't played around with it enough yet, but when I have tried to do as you suggested in Post #8 it would not work consistently.

And there are hacks to have to do with the 5442 camera that my spotters are.

Seemed to work OK with my SDA425DB-HNY when I tried it today but I did notice that it seemed to take a few minutes for the changed rules to take effect. That is, I set the rule to human only. Clicked apply. Car goes by 30 seconds after and it still tries to track it. Another car goes by ~1:30 minutes later. Still tries to track it. 3 minutes later a car goes by and it doesn't track it but does track a person walking a few seconds later. After that it seemed to work reliably for the rest of the day. I'd have thought that the rules would work immediately after the apply. Had I not gotten distracted by something else for a moment and bailed on it after the first two I would have concluded that it didn't work.

Unfortunately, I have too much stuff set up to change to test stuff like this easily. I need a separate sandbox cam network.

 

[Mike A.]

Did try the clone approach. However, there is no way that I have found, to add a second set of IVS target filter rules to a cloned 5242 Dahua camera. That would be a nice plus for sure. Thus the clone would only target humans and move the PTZ to preset 2.

At present, there appears to be no filter in BI to distinguish between different IVS target filters (human vs vehicle) to perform certain desired actions. Once the camera IVS target filter rules are set, BI fatefully obeys and can not distinguish one filter from the other.

Ahhhh, sorry. I left a piece out. You'd need a human-only IVS rule on the cam to pick up. I'm kind of determined to figure this out now just for my own interest. I'll try to play with it some again tomorrow.

Yeah, as I said in an earlier post I didn't see that any indication was passed for what caused the IVS trigger (human, vehicle). There is a rule number that's passed (e.g., IVS-1, IVS-2, etc.) which might be used if you had rule 1 set for humans and rule 2 for vehicles. Or you should be able to use the trigger type if you had say a tripwire line set for human and an intrusion box for vehicles or whatever.

 

[Alaska Country]

Took a look at the camera and have IVS rules 3,4,5,6 (all tripwire) set for both human and vehicle. Will add IVS rule 7 as a tripwire and only set the target filter to human. That was the part that I was missing.

Will take a look at the PTZ "ONVIF Events" in the "Listen For" box and see if rule 7 shows up.

Triggered the spotter cam (cul-de-sac) with the BI "Trigger Now" button after adding a human only IVS rule. Did not see anything listed in the "Listen For" box that showed a rule called IVS-7 or anything similar. Also no IVS-7 rule listed in the BI log.