Thoughts on this mains powered IR illuminator

[Zeddy]

Hi all

What do you think about this IR illuminator? I'm thinking of using it to enhance the night vision of a 4MP hikvision or should I just replace the Hikvison with a low light camera like the Longse?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/IR-Infrared-96-LED-illuminator-Floodlights-Night-lamp-Adapter-Security-Monitor-/252067577035?var=&hash=item3ab065fccb:m:mdFScRcbN__uwcxyG2wyEWQ

 

[Kawboy12R]

I'd match the illuminator's spread to the camera's FOV. The wide 45deg option on that one might be adequate but I bet is still a bit narrow for whichever lens is in your Hik. I'd add light before replacing the camera. If you aren't satisfied with more illumination then upgrade cameras. The extra light will always help with the new camera, plus might make you happy with your current Hik's onboard IR turned off. Onboard IR creates lots of problems with false positives and blinding the camera in fog, rain, snow, etc.

 

[Zeddy]

Cheers for that. After doing more reading on here it appears that the Scene illuminators are the product of choice. I've been in contact with them and they seem receptive to ordering directly from the factory. I've just been told that the S-S06D-IR are $36USD each. My hikvision currently has a 2.8mm lens, so would that mean I would be better with a either 90 or 120 degree illuminator rather than the 60 that I was thinking of getting?

http://www.infrared-ir.com/files/productFile/201209111606515767_en.htm

 

[Kawboy12R]

Yes. You don't want a white hotspot in the middle of your picture. The illuminator should light up most of the FOV for best results up close, which is where you get your money shots on faces, particularly with a 2.8mm lens.

 

[j4co]

Interesting.
i am thinking of building a new house, so i can pre wire everything i want.
with my current cameras i have indeed lots of issues with rain and reflections of the built in ir.

i was doing sight seeing and found a house that is being built with the mounting for several cameras already intergrated. That looks really nice, so i will do it just like that.

how far does the ir need to be away from the camera, further away better ? Too far might not be good i assume

 

[Kawboy12R]

It depends. Few feet give or take if it is replacing the inbuilt IR of a cam where the subjects will come right up to the camera. Closer to the cam will match FOV better but give more false positives in motion detection from bugs, fog, etc. You don't want them stepping out of the light when they're close though. When supplementing inbuilt IR or white light it's more flexible, especially if the camera's job is for more distant objects or you're using the illuminator to light up the background and/or distant subjects and using builtin IR or white light for closeup shots. It's a bit of a judgement call and an art that depends on the cam's FOV, individual illuminator, the actual scene, and where you think the bad guys will be. It's easy if you can get them to stand still on an X, face the camera, and take their hat off. Otherwise it's your best guess which is where experience and practice and tweaking improve your odds.

 

[j4co]

Will think it over, the hiskvision [FONT=.HelveticaNeueUI]Ds-2cd2542fwd-i i have is having major issues wide open on a wall facing east when it is raining. The hikvision bullit i have has less issues. Might go with dahua mini ptz next time.
i see them for like $135 in China, and that will offer more freedom installing them.[/FONT]

 

[j4co]

So after some reading and looking into that ir website linked above.
could i just use 2 wide angle ir lights and light from the front of the house from center out to left and right ? (2x90 degrees unit)
Cameras would be side of house and at door in middle, House is 12 meter wide and situated 4 meters from public road.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Why not? Or two 60s? Or even one 90 aimed a bit high? Depends a bit on the scene and existing lighting, too. Kinda seems like you're expecting a lot from one 2.8mm cam though. Basic takeaway message is don't use a laser beam illuminator with a really wide angle lens. Get something at least reasonably closely matching the FOV if you're thinking of using it exclusively for illumination. Adding 2 more 6mm cams flanking the 2.8 and angled out would add their IR to the 2.8's edges, even out the 2.8's lighting, and give you grestly improved front coverage with 180 degrees easily covered and 3 different angles for better ID.

 

[j4co]

No it would be new camera's for me: http://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/sd22204t-gn-1046.html
This is 2.7mm~11mm(4x Optical zoom) mounted with Dahua Water-proof Wall Mount Bracket PFB202W

update:
issue is that i need to pay for extra ir:
- a pipe from tech room to front of the home €80
- a cat-6 kabel €10
- port on poe switch 8 ports unit for 125€ / 8 = €15,65
- ir unit poe €50 (perhaps bit less)

so extra for ir units = €155

2nd hand 24 port midspan for like 100€ shipped is also an option.

even better, a aliexpress 8 port unit for 23€ shipped.
brings that part of the cost per port down to like 4€ (power supply is only 65 watt, so 6 x 10 watt ir modules)

 

[j4co]

Got prices for above mentioned Scene Electronics poe units


S-H061E-IR
Scene Electronics(HK)Co., Ltd - Products - S-H061P-IR PoE IR Illuminator - Scene,Infrared illuminator,Infrared-ray night vision video camera,CCDLEDLamp board.Infrared Lamp board,High clear with lifrared ray an d night_sight came,Infrared Night Vision Assembly Cover,White light lamp
$44

S-SG6-IR

Scene Electronics(HK)Co., Ltd - Products - S-SG6P-IR - Scene,Infrared illuminator,Infrared-ray night vision video camera,CCDLEDLamp board.Infrared Lamp board,High clear with lifrared ray an d night_sight came,Infrared Night Vision Assembly Cover,White light lamp
$34 ($29 non poe)

I am waiting for shipment prices as i assume this is not included, but i am not sure.

edit: for future interested people this is what i got quoted and have ordered:
$34 each illuminator (S-SG6-IR POE)
$46 shipping (6 units)
$15 paypal (bank to bank optie was even more)

also the $25 poe inserter arrived, and that works standalone, so fine for ir units (hikvision camera works on it) no lan ports needed.

 

[j4co]

They arrived, unfortunately 60€ VAT to be payed. They priced down the items to $130 but failed to do that including dhl shipment. So it went over €150 and than it is 21% VAT and handling fee here locally.

anyway, the look to be well made. I powered one up on my POE inserter and it seems to work.
will try to put one up temporarely to test with my wall mounten Hikvision.

 

[PSPCommOp]

They arrived, unfortunately 60€ VAT to be payed. They priced down the items to $130 but failed to do that including dhl shipment. So it went over €150 and than it is 21% VAT and handling fee here locally.

anyway, the look to be well made. I powered one up on my POE inserter and it seems to work.
will try to put one up temporarely to test with my wall mounten Hikvision.

Post some pics after installation, I'm always curious on which IR Illuminators do what and how well they do it.

 

[j4co]

It has been a while, but I made a test setup for dahua DH-SD22204T-GN mini ptz and a IR illuminator on a movable pole.

Currently in house, looking into a pitch black room through a door, distance to boxes is like 3 meters.
One zoomed out, other zoomed in.



There is some reflection on the door which has sound diffusing elements. The ir illuminator is 90 degrees.

Will try to find time to set it outside and test again. It is now darker earlier in the evening at least.

 

[j4co]

Ok some clips finally.

DH-SD22204T-GN no ir (only street lights and neighbor lights and the flood lights we and the left side neighbor has)


DH-SD22204T-GN with S-SG6-IR 90 degree 10 watt

 

[j4co]

And some clips from other side of the house.
This is water, around 20 meter to the wall side with vegetation.

DH-SD22204T-GN Camera without IR. Have to freeze first few frames as it returns to preset position afterwards and that shows dark water only..

DH-SD22204T-GN Camera with 90 degree IR unit (10 watts or bit less)

DH-SD22204T-GN Camera with 30 degree IR unit (10 watts or bit less)

DH-SD22204T-GN Camera with IR cannon (3.6 watts) on wide position

DH-SD22204T-GN Camera with IR cannon (3.6 watts) zoomed hallway

DH-SD22204T-GN Camera with IR cannon (3.6 watts) zoomed in max

 

[nayr]

Ok some clips finally.

DH-SD22204T-GN no ir (only street lights and neighbor lights and the flood lights we and the left side neighbor has)

DH-SD22204T-GN with S-SG6-IR 90 degree 10 watt

That's some very nice gains, you have it at enough of an offset it creates shadows and if you notice that brings out alot of facial detail.. you might try upping the shutter speed a bit.

 

[j4co]

Off course this was just test. This far i like the amount of ir light these units put out compared with the ir on the hikvision turret i have in this garden.

Ir unit was like 60 cm below the camera, which stood in 1 floor up from ground level in open door (french balcony) camera was like 5 meter high here and i intend to install camera much lower, perhaps 230 cm to get better facial.
These ir units will have to be insalled also, my first thought is at the eve at 550 cm height, but that will cause short shadows, and not much face detail when subject were caps etc. They would cover my front garden and street nice at that height, as it is only 3 meter garden, 1 meter walk pathway, and 2 meter car park and than 4 meter road. So totally 10 meters maximal and they do 16 meter according to specs, and that will be true seeing the test above i did.
Since i intend to use a dahua mount from the pfb20x series everywhere, i just have one installed under the eve with a conduit for 2 ethernet cables, so i can either mount 2 of these ir units, or even a extra camera.
Could install a 2nd mount just above the windows atabout the same height as the cameras, but that will not look as nice as the heigh install.

 

[nbstl68]

Does anyone have pics of what these or other types of IR cannons look like "from the street" looking at them?
Id like an idea of what I would see if I were, say a neighbor walking by and a house had a few IR cannons pointing out.

 

[nayr]

they look like a red reflector