Selecting a DH-IPC-HFW5442E-ZE for LPR. Dahua / Loryta

[iamnothim]

Ok I did a bit of research before posting. Not a lot but some. I'd like to record license plates on my cul-de-sac street.
Approximately 50-60 ft wide.
This camera looks real nice (DH-IPC-HFW5442E-ZE) at a nice price. Especially a 1/1.8" CMOS and 4MP isn't crazy.
I don't get that it is a bullet camera with "PTZ". perhaps there a gimbal mechanism.
I do wish the Zoom was better. It's 4.4x optical zoom with 0.0x digital zoom, but I'll only need to go 50' camera to plate.
I checked the Synology camera compatibility list and it's on it.

My mailbox is concrete block covered in slate. That's where I thought I'd mount it using mollies and tamper proof screws.
This will provide an angle to subject of about than 10 degrees. Mounted Camera to the center of the street as stated above is 50 ft.
I wish to eliminate the blown out image from the SD49225XA that I have attached. That camera is elevated and 90 degrees from the subject

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of stuff and I'd appreciate your assistance
Many thanks
Luke

 

[wittaj]

It is not a PTZ camera. The pan and tilt is manual when you point it where you want. The zoom is the varifocal but it is a set it and forget it.

For getting plates, it is more an art than a science. Make sure you look up the LPR subforum to help get you started.

You do not need 4MP for LPR and the 2MP varifocal version that is a lot cheaper will work just fine.

50 Feet will be a stretch for reliable plate reading with either the 2MP or 4MP varifocal. Unless your plates there are the size of bumpers LOL. But the ZE with USA plates is a struggle. Even the more powerful Z4E that people have tried at 50-60 feet was a struggle.

The 49225 PTZ just needs to be dialed in. It is a very capable camera and it appears you are running auto/default settings.

In my opinion, shutter and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 30ms as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible. HLC at 50, unless for LPR, will certainly degrade the image with motion.

 

[cjowers]

if you want to keep the ptz where it is as an overview cam (with settings good for static color images), then yes get a separate (2MP, Z4e or higher) cam for IR LPR. The above settings and method by wittaj is very good for LPR (with either new or existing cam), nicely said. Notice how LPR cameras at these settings are not good for much else. Go larger zoom than you expect, as (if cul-de-sac) you may want to point further down the street (at right edge of photo), or install from another position if you have issues down at the mailbox (not sure how 10 deg angle performs when someone has their brights on, probably fine if your settings are dialed down, but 20-30 deg also seems fine from my experience). try the positions first before you permanently mount anything. It sounds like you have the concepts for success already. I have a similar environment, and just mounted where your SD49225XA image is taken, only pointed further down the street (i have more zoom). this simplified installation (weather, POE cable running, etc.) and also allows me to also catch people walking up the drive. (although the nighttime images are a bit dark for people, slightly out of focus, it is 'right up in their grill' so still easy to ID).

 

[iamnothim]

It is not a PTZ camera. The pan and tilt is manual when you point it where you want. The zoom is the varifocal but it is a set it and forget it.

For getting plates, it is more an art than a science. Make sure you look up the LPR subforum to help get you started.

You do not need 4MP for LPR and the 2MP varifocal version that is a lot cheaper will work just fine.

50 Feet will be a stretch for reliable plate reading with either the 2MP or 4MP varifocal. Unless your plates there are the size of bumpers LOL. But the ZE with USA plates is a struggle. Even the more powerful Z4E that people have tried at 50-60 feet was a struggle.

The 49225 PTZ just needs to be dialed in. It is a very capable camera and it appears you are running auto/default settings.

In my opinion, shutter and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 30ms as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible. HLC at 50, unless for LPR, will certainly degrade the image with motion.

Bless you man!
I actually got a bunch of what you wrote for me (and everyone else!). If I can just retain it. I have issues. That said I don’t know video but I enjoy photography. I’ve got a Nikon D810 and a bunch of lenses. I have a handle on shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. I only shoot in Manual because I like trick/gimmick/recipe shots.
I’ve built some tube amplifiers so I have some concept of gain but moving it to another discipline is difficult. I’m going in for a PET scan at the end of the month. Like I said retention. But you laid these thing out so well ! I’ll take them in chucks preparing for the camera…
Oh the camera. Been talking to Andy and he sez to get

IPC-B5442E-Z4E

That’s all I can think of for now
Many thanks
Luke

 

[Parley]

Ok I did a bit of research before posting. Not a lot but some. I'd like to record license plates on my cul-de-sac street.
Approximately 50-60 ft wide.
This camera looks real nice (DH-IPC-HFW5442E-ZE) at a nice price. Especially a 1/1.8" CMOS and 4MP isn't crazy.
I don't get that it is a bullet camera with "PTZ". perhaps there a gimbal mechanism.
I do wish the Zoom was better. It's 4.4x optical zoom with 0.0x digital zoom, but I'll only need to go 50' camera to plate.
I checked the Synology camera compatibility list and it's on it.

My mailbox is concrete block covered in slate. That's where I thought I'd mount it using mollies and tamper proof screws.
This will provide an angle to subject of about than 10 degrees. Mounted Camera to the center of the street as stated above is 50 ft.
I wish to eliminate the blown out image from the SD49225XA that I have attached. That camera is elevated and 90 degrees from the subject

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of stuff and I'd appreciate your assistance
Many thanks
Luke

I have two of those cameras that I am using as LPR cameras. They are doing quite well, but I would keep the distance under 125'. It looks like you could use two of them with them pointing in opposite directions on your street.

 

[iamnothim]

Didn’t describe what I was thinking as far as layout.
The street is about 50 feet wide there’s no lane markings or centerline just shallow curbs. You can see these in the videos on my other thread. My thought is to mount the camera on my mailbox post which is made out of 3 ft.² concrete block that’s covered with slate. So the camera is going to be 4 feet from the road and it’s going to be pointed in the direction of approaching vehicles maybe 10 degrees. It could pick up a plate as early as 100 feet and follow it all the way until it gets 10 feet. This would be the front plate. The camera would be about 3 feet off the ground. I’ll probably build a box to enclose the camera. Naturally this would pick up the front plate of a car which in California would be 30% of the vehicles. Departing vehicles the camera probably wouldn’t pick it up until the rear plate was about 40 to 50 feet away.

 

[wittaj]

You may see the vehicle at 100 feet with the ZE, but those would have to be some big @$$ plates to be able to read them at 100 feet LOL.

 

[Flintstone61]

5241 z12e dedicated to plates only. Black asphalt patch is a clean 50 feet from Cams. i can see some plates beyond the asphalt patch in the 70-80 foot range. the 5442 stacked above it stays color view day and night. you get the plate and a vehicle description, with a color. I suppose a 2.8 mm isnt the best overview cam for looking at cars 40-50feet....but it's what i've got for now. I received a 6.0 mm 5442 recently, I'll be setting that up in the rear lot underneath an older model z12. 5231 or what ever it's called. I hate to say it because I don't wanna jinx myself, but ever since the Condo announced the License plate camera in the newsletter, AND the rear lighting upgrade was completed, It's been pretty quiet for Stupid human tricks in the overnight hours. I was back there last week at 10:30 at night and the lights were almost painful to look at. Who wants to smoke weed and listen to Bob Marley with that annoyance. Nobody I take it. My one nightowl resident hasn't been texting me in the middle of the night with jack asses lurking around checking doors,etc.

 

[biggen]

If you are basically mounting it at the road then the Z4E will be fine. You will have to pick your focus distance when setting it up. But so long as you are under 50', it should perform fine.

I had that camera and ended up selling it for the Z12. I was trying to capture plates at 85' and just wasn't happy with its performance at that distance.

 

[iamnothim]

5241 z12e dedicated to plates only. Black asphalt patch is a clean 50 feet from Cams. i can see some plates beyond the asphalt patch in the 70-80 foot range. the 5442 stacked above it stays color view day and night. you get the plate and a vehicle description, with a color. I suppose a 2.8 mm isnt the best overview cam for looking at cars 40-50feet....but it's what i've got for now. I received a 6.0 mm 5442 recently, I'll be setting that up in the rear lot underneath an older model z12. 5231 or what ever it's called. I hate to say it because I don't wanna jinx myself, but ever since the Condo announced the License plate camera in the newsletter, AND the rear lighting upgrade was completed, View attachment 94461 It's been pretty quiet for Stupid human tricks in the overnight hours. I was back there last week at 10:30 at night and the lights were almost painful to look at. Who wants to smoke weed and listen to Bob Marley with that annoyance. Nobody I take it. My one nightowl resident hasn't been texting me in the middle of the night with jack asses lurking around checking doors,etc.
View attachment 94457View attachment 94458View attachment 94455View attachment 94456View attachment 94459View attachment 94460

@Flintstone61
Red red wine…. It’s commendable that you are providing a venue for these activities. Actually I think they’re Gov mandated now. Back to cams. Thanks for the examples and explanation. @biggen Glad the Z12E was brought up. I’m good with 2MP and 1/2.8”. That said I think Focus capture/speed is the most important attribute for this application. I don’t know how this is measured. I’m thinking it’s between the HFW5241E-Z12E. and the HFW5442E-Z4E

 

[biggen]

@biggen Glad the Z12E was brought up. I’m good with 2MP and 1/2.8”. That said I think Focus capture/speed is the most important attribute for this application. I don’t know how this is measured. I’m thinking it’s between the HFW5241E-Z12E. and the HFW5442E-Z4E

Focus is tricky. Especially since yours will be pointed parallel with the road and not at the ground at all if you are mounting it to a low mail box so there is nothing to focus on. You will have to have a car (or someone walk out on the road holding license plate) sit at your desired focus distance (e.g. 10 feet, 20 feet, whatever you want...) and focus on the stopped car. Speed of the cars shouldn't matter with an appropriate shutter speed.

 

[wittaj]

Since you are putting it on the mailbox and the cars will be rcoming within feet of the camera, I wouldn't go with a bullet like the Z12E, go with a turret varifocal at that location and height. Will not stick out as much either.

And then pick a distance away from the camera like say 10 feet or 20 feet and stop a car there and focus it to that point. Shutter speed will be the same regardless of the camera selected (usually 1/2,000 at night but some can get away with 1/1000 or 1/500), but a Z12E on a mailbox is way overkill to pick up plates 10-20 feet away or even 40 feet away.

 

[iamnothim]

Since you are putting it on the mailbox and the cars will be rcoming within feet of the camera, I wouldn't go with a bullet like the Z12E, go with a turret varifocal at that location and height. Will not stick out as much either.

And then pick a distance away from the camera like say 10 feet or 20 feet and stop a car there and focus it to that point. Shutter speed will be the same regardless of the camera selected (usually 1/2,000 at night but some can get away with 1/1000 or 1/500), but a Z12E on a mailbox is way overkill to pick up plates 10-20 feet away or even 40 feet away.

If I can get the same performance from a turret I’d love to go that way especially from an aesthetic view. Is there a problem with mounting them vertically? Lastly Is there a turret that’s equivalent to the HFW5442E-Z4E ? Thanks.

 

[Parley]

Edit: He is looking into the DH-IPC-HFW5442E-ZE as an LPR camera. I was thinking it was the DH-IPC-HFW5442E-Z4E which I have two of. I do have a DH-IPC-HFW5442E-ZE pointing down a street but not for license plate purposes. You will have to be close in as stated above.

 

[Parley]

Here is a picture looking down the street with the DH-IPC-HFW5442E-ZE at maximum zoom.

 

[wittaj]

For a camera on the mailbox that is next to the side of the road and could be getting the front or back of plates within 30ish feet or so (and his will be closer), then the 5442-ZE varifocal turret will work:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1625601227&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

As will the 2MP T2231T-ZS that is a lot cheaper:

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera Motorized Vari-Focal 2.7mm–13.5mm Lens English Version

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera Motorized Vari-Focal 2.7mm–13.5mm Lens English Version

www.amazon.com

You can mount the turret however you want vertical or horizontal.

There is no equivalent turret with the same zoom as the Z4E. The bigger optical lens needs the bullet size.

You gotta remember, the sole purpose for this camera is to capture plates. It is not an overview camera also. You may benefit from some overview during the day, but you will pick the distance away from this camera (say 15 feet) and focus it to that point. It will get plates within 5 to 30ish feet at that focus, but not at 100 feet. The 12mm varifocal wouldn't get it at 100 feet either if you were trying to stretch it that far.

 

[iamnothim]

Here is a picture looking down the street with the DH-IPC-HFW5442E-ZE at maximum zoom.

View attachment 94490

Way cool

 

[iamnothim]

For a camera on the mailbox that is next to the side of the road and could be getting the front or back of plates within 30ish feet or so (and his will be closer), then the 5442-ZE varifocal turret will work:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1625601227&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

As will the 2MP T2231T-ZS that is a lot cheaper:

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera Motorized Vari-Focal 2.7mm–13.5mm Lens English Version

Amazon.com : Loryta IPC-T2231T-ZS 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera Motorized Vari-Focal 2.7mm–13.5mm Lens English Version

www.amazon.com

You can mount the turret however you want vertical or horizontal.

There is no equivalent turret with the same zoom as the Z4E. The bigger optical lens needs the bullet size.

You gotta remember, the sole purpose for this camera is to capture plates. It is not an overview camera also. You may benefit from some overview during the day, but you will pick the distance away from this camera (say 15 feet) and focus it to that point. It will get plates within 5 to 30ish feet at that focus, but not at 100 feet. The 12mm varifocal wouldn't get it at 100 feet either if you were trying to stretch it that far.

Excellent
I’ve got the existing DH-SD49225XA-HNR as the overview camera. (Garage upper Right Corner) It’s 10 ft up and 90 degrees to the street. I’ll dedicate the new DH-IPC-HDW5442T-ZE as the LPR camera. I think that camera is a bargain with a 1/1.8” CMOS. 4MP, and motorized focus etc etc. BTW what’s with the long range POE numbers? I thought CAT6 wouldn’t go past 360ft. Ish. If that works I’d feel a lot better and even get a newer POEe switch to help. See pic of a couple of my panels. I have FO in all the walls but in 20 years I’ve only lit one run. And…and I still need 12VDC.

 

[sebastiantombs]

ePoE cameras from Dahua will go 800 meters, say 2400 feet plus. That comes at a penalty of lowering the network speed to 10Mb/PS but that's not a problem because a camera doesn't even use 10Mb/PS.

Turret cameras can be mounted to vertical surfaces with o problem. It's best to use a PFA130 junction box doing that, especially in your case, to provide a weather proof place for the cable connects.

I like that mailbox!

 

[iamnothim]

Thanks DaddyO’
So I spec a switch with POEe (think I got that right) I just dedicate it to that camera or a handful and plug it into my “backbone “ switch.
Unbelievable the stuff you can do! “Oh, by the way you can run Ethernet, POE no less, 2400’. What?” “Say What?”