Current camera brand/model of choice (available in europe)?

[Sokonomi]

I've been racking my brain about what cameras to pick for a long while now,
as most suggestions on the net are about brands I can't easily get where I live.
So I'm hoping there is some lone European out there with a recent experience.

People seem to be quite fond of brands like Amcrest and Annke,
but I simply can not buy those here without incurring massive shipping and import costs.
I can get hikvision, but the prices here seem massively hiked for some reason (US import I guess?).
There's Dahua, but all the places that have them, have scathing reviews all over these cameras.
There's another brand, readily available, but most of you would shoot me for mentioning it (despite recent firmware allegedly fixing it).

My main goal is to guard my company against daytime robbers and nighttime burglars, so mostly indoors.
I have already laid the groundwork with thick cat6 runs and a server rack with PoE switch ready to go,
so some PoE capability is prefered, and it needs to be compatible with something like Blue Iris 5.
So all I need now is to pick a camera. But I just cant seem to land on one particular model.

Does anyone have some advice, from a european perspective?

 

[wittaj]

@EMPIRETECANDY is a trusted vendor here and if it can be shipped economically, he will figure it out.

Nothing wrong with Dahua, so look at the users here and their capabilities and experiences and actual images and decide for yourself.

But hey go with the readily available brand and then realize that they will not get nightime burglars...

 

[dudemaar]

I've been racking my brain about what cameras to pick for a long while now,
as most suggestions on the net are about brands I can't easily get where I live.
So I'm hoping there is some lone European out there with a recent experience.

People seem to be quite fond of brands like Amcrest and Annke,
but I simply can not buy those here without incurring massive shipping and import costs.
I can get hikvision, but the prices here seem massively hiked for some reason (US import I guess?).
There's Dahua, but all the places that have them, have scathing reviews all over these cameras.
There's another brand, readily available, but most of you would shoot me for mentioning it (despite recent firmware allegedly fixing it).

My main goal is to guard my company against daytime robbers and nighttime burglars, so mostly indoors.
I have already laid the groundwork with thick cat6 runs and a server rack with PoE switch ready to go,
so some PoE capability is prefered, and it needs to be compatible with something like Blue Iris 5.
So all I need now is to pick a camera. But I just cant seem to land on one particular model.

Does anyone have some advice, from a european perspective?

I recommend this model because the zoom focal distance is adjustable.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1665873891&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

And don’t install them higher than 8 feet if you want a face shot.

 

[saltwater]

+1 what @wittaj said. I have Dahua cameras, all of them from Andy at @EMPIRETECANDY and they haven't missed a beat. I have the 5442 series and the picture/video quality is excellent, especially at night. I can't compare them with other brands but with what I've got I have no reason to consider other brands. Obviously, I can't comment on local suppliers for Europe as I'm in Australia, but I had no issues with Andy.

 

[Sokonomi]

@EMPIRETECANDY is a trusted vendor here and if it can be shipped economically, he will figure it out.

Nothing wrong with Dahua, so look at the users here and their capabilities and experiences and actual images and decide for yourself.

But hey go with the readily available brand and then realize that they will not get nightime burglars...

It seems this vendor is located somewhere in HongKong, so import taxes will probably get ugly (usually 21% + fee).

I recommend this model because the zoom focal distance is adjustable.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-IPC-T5442T-ZE-Vari-Focal-Eyeball-Starlight/dp/B08C77TNY9/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1665873891&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

And don’t install them higher than 8 feet if you want a face shot.

Empiretech is another one of those famous US brands that unfortunately doesn't seem to be available here.
Importing them from outside the EU incurs a massive customs tax,

Dahua seems to have a poor reputation here for some reason, also plagued by tons of knockoffs (or OEMs)?
Im looking at one here thats sold as Dahua but the picture seems to say 'Alhua' on the camera..

My drop ceiling is just about 8ft high, so I reckon I could get away with using dome cams?
I have some minor concerns about backlighting though, my showroom counter is facing a window,
so lockable white balance oor really good HDR might be a requirement as the outdoor light might wash it out.

I'm probably going to get raked for this, BUT... reolink?
I've heard that they, after years of being pure suck for Blue Iris, have finally decided to work on making things compatible as of February this year, with a bunch of firmware updates fixing iFrame and substream issues? Have they now become an actual viable option, or are they still considered bad mojo? They certainly are available by the bucket here..

 

[dudemaar]

From my experience dome is bad in the dark from IR reflection within the glass dome. Andy also has a European site. Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing products with exclusive discounts on AliExpress

 

[Sokonomi]

From my experience dome is bad in the dark from IR reflection within the glass dome. Andy also has a European site. Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing products with exclusive discounts on AliExpress

Thats just aliexpress but translated. Still ships from China.

 

[dudemaar]

I’m sure he ships to Holland

 

[Sokonomi]

I’m sure he ships to Holland

Yes he does, but there are customs and fees involved,
plus customer support in case something is faulty/breaks would be a big issue.
Thats why im trying to find a brand that's both reputable and doesn't have to come from the dark side of the moon.

 

[Timokreon]

Andy does have a UK Amazon store now, such as Empire Tech.

 

[wittaj]

Well let's wait for @EMPIRETECANDY to chime in and see if he says he can ship there, but he has ways to lots of countries to get stuff there quickly and cheaper than you can find elsewhere LOL.

Andy's cameras are Dahua and Hikvision OEM equipment sold under the names Loryta and Empiretech.

Some of my cameras I have bought from Andy from his Amazon and AliExpress store come as Dahua cams in Dahua boxes with Dahua logos, and some are not logo'd - I think it depends on how many cameras Andy buys if he gets them with the Dahua Logo or not. But regardless, they are Dahua units. If you get a unit that has Dahua on it, then the camera GUI will say Dahua; otherwise it will simply say IP Camera but looks identical except without the logo. Some of his cameras may come with EmpireTech stamped on them as well.

As long you you buy from the vendor EmpireTech or Loryta on Amazon (or AliExpress), they are Andy cams and Dahua or Hikvision OEM.

His cameras and NVRs are international models and many of them are not available through Dahua and Hikvision USA authorized dealers, but his cameras and NVRs are usually better than what you can find from a USA authorized dealer.

You can update the firmware on Andy's cameras and NVRs from the Dahua and Hikvision website, thus proving they are real Dahua and Hikvision. But you will find that the firmware we get from him is actually better and more recent than what is on the Dahua website because many members here provide feedback to Andy and then Dahua makes modifications to the firmware and sends back to him and then he sends out to his customers. These have been great improvements that Dahua doesn't even update their firmware and add to their website. So many of us are running a newer firmware than those that purchase Dahua cameras through professional installers. Smart IR on the 5442 series is one such improvement. Autotracking on the 49225 and 49425 PTZ is another. We got the next version of AI SMD 3.0 prior to anyone else as well.

Look at the threads here where members are actually testing firmware and improving it for Dahua - find a Dahua dealer with that type of relationship that Andy has with Dahua - I don't think you will find it. Look at the Dahua 4k camera on the 1/1.2" sensor as an example - Dahua provides cameras to Andy to sell before Dahua even made it available and look at all the improvements being made to the firmware from input from customers right here on this site. And the kicker is, we are not Dahua's target market - it is the professional installers...

You do have to be careful with some rebranded cameras purchased from other vendors as they are cameras that are for the Chinese region but have been hacked into English but then are not able to be updated or they will brick. Buying from a reputable source is key to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[wittaj]

What Reolinks make up for in Daytime, they are horrible at night, especially with motion. Any camera can look great at night for a static image. Motion is what we need to capture.

Even if they fixed the iframe and substream problem to work with BI (which nobody has yet to come back to this forum and confirm it does work...)...they still suffer from poor quality in low light conditions....

What you mean a missing hand isn't normal LOL :lmao (plus look at the blur on the face and he is barely moving and this should be ideal indoor IR bounce and it struggles):





How about missing everything but the head and upper torso

The invisible man, where can he be. Thank goodness he is carrying around a reflective plate to see where he is LOL (hint - the person is literally in the middle of the image at the end of the fence)

I've seen better images on an episode of ghost hunters





And of course, this is an example from Reolink's marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture.... Could this provide anything useful for the police other than the date and time something happened? Would this protect your home? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two visible columns:





Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

 

[wittaj]

Here is the unofficial Reolink thread.

You can see all the attempts people have provided to demonstrate the quality of Reolink, and they are all a blurry mess at night or missing body parts or other messes.

We have challenged someone to provide a clean capture of someone moving at night with a Reolink and as you can see with 20 pages, nobody has yet to provide a usable image with motion at night.

Reolink's algorithm is designed to produce a nice bright static image at night and that comes at a cost of blur and ghost and missing body parts at night.

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

And then of course, if you do a search query on this site, you will see all the people that came here after purchasing reolinks and they let them down when they needed it. All they could do is tell the police what time the event happened...

Search results for query: reolink

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Sokonomi]

Whoof, then I guess I was right not to jump on the Reolink band wagon after the firmware news. I did come across that topic when researching whether or not Reolink might now be worth the mustard. But I guess not. Most reviews seem to put 4k reolinks right at the balance point of price and performance, but night time seems pretty piss poor. Even my old 2mp wyzecams don't seem to f#%k up that poorly in pitch dark. So thanks for scratching reolink off my list for good; I shall nolonger be tempted.

That said though, a price tag firmly south of 300 euros is a bit beyond my budget considering I need 4 of em, so I guess that, combined with the fact that Andy (presumably) doesn't sell from within the EU tradezone kinda puts empiretech on the bench for me as well.

Is there really nothing in between 'shitty generic 2mp cam' and 'good stuff that requires bleeding 300 bucks to customs' ?

 

[wittaj]

You can look at the consumer grade Amcrest and Lorex (both made by Dahua) or the Annke (made by Hikvision).

These are budget-friendly, consumer grade cameras that typically have smaller sensors and cheaper components than their Dahua or Hikvision counterparts in order to sell them at budget prices.

If you are using them indoors, you can typically get by with a less than ideal MP/sensor ratio as the infrared is bouncing all over the walls. Outside they will struggle more than the cameras on proper MP/sensor ratios.

 

[Iemand91]

@Sokonomi You do know @EMPIRETECANDY / Andy now has a Amazon.de store: Amazon.de

A limited number for now, but at least the most popular models for sale now. Hopefully more models and other stuff soon.

Also; a few months ago I bought a camera from Andy directly (via email) and shipped to The Netherlands, I had no other import costs but maybe I got lucky.
Sometimes you can get a post/mail from FedEx for import cost after delivery...

 

[looney2ns]

Yes he does, but there are customs and fees involved,
plus customer support in case something is faulty/breaks would be a big issue.
Thats why im trying to find a brand that's both reputable and doesn't have to come from the dark side of the moon.

Andy will take care of you on all fronts.
Faulty or breaks are extremely rare, even if it happens, Andy will take care of you.
Simply email him directly and ask.
No need to be guessing what the shipping will be, he can tell you.

 

[Sokonomi]

@Sokonomi You do know @EMPIRETECANDY / Andy now has a Amazon.de store: Amazon.de

A limited number for now, but at least the most popular models for sale now. Hopefully more models and other stuff soon.

Also; a few months ago I bought a camera from Andy directly (via email) and shipped to The Netherlands, I had no other import costs but maybe I got lucky.
Sometimes you can get a post/mail from FedEx for import cost after delivery...

Amazon.de would work just fine for me, but the selection is indeed a bit limited; just two 4MP models. Was Andy able to hook you up with other models via email? And interesting that you didn't get hit by customs. My orders from China used to just zoom by without being checked like 90% of the time, but it got pretty bad about a year ago. My last 6 shipments got pegged by customs, one of em was a genuinely GIFTED 20 euro network card that got hit with a 17 euro customs bill.. EMS shipping seems to be a guarantee for the 21% of worth + 12 euro slap. Manageable on a 20 euro NIC, but when you're trying to push through 800 euros worth of cameras it starts to sting a little..

So do I just send Andy a DM on this forum, or does he have an email somewhere?

 

[wittaj]

Either DM or kingsecurity2014@163.com

 

[Sokonomi]

Either DM or kingsecurity2014@163.com

Thank you kindly, email sent out.