20x, 25x, 30x, 2way,optical/digital, PTZ, 0-90,Ai, Human, Car, Bike, Elec-Bike, Skateboard, Dogwalker, Cat, PARKED CAR DETECT! What is going?

[Phil Indeblanc]

1. So the market has about 6 or 10 brands of these pendant dome cameras, which all seam pretty comparable, All around $170 to $300

I tried a few and the Jennov, the cheapest had pretty bad Ai, the JideTech had a little better, but WHY are these detecting PARKED cars?
The rectangle keeps detecting it, AND the Jide WAS zooming in and following humans when detecting. Changed some settings, and I cant get it back to do it.
They each have 2way Audio.
And some of the options to Ai detect, bikes vs E-bikes? Whats that about. And some features the sw states is not even available.
So these Ai features are looking to me as some sort of gimmick, in a wide use situation. Maybe good for specifics for front door, sure? But they are huge for front door, so?

2. I was looking for such a zoom and versatile camera for License Plates, BUT, trying the different IR settings, I could not get these to get any night time plates.
And the JideTech is CONSTANTLY focus correcting, and its not slow, BUT, it still isnt ideal to not have manual focus, as it misses pretty much everything with night shutter speeds, etc. Even a little rain gets these cams to be out of focus.

So, I am thinking, I have another 10x zoom, which is enough, and is a bullet cam, that I think might do better. So, we shall see on that front.

3. ANOTHER MAJOR issue I am noticing camera makers make a mistake on....

The degree they allow the camera to tilt UP.
So just a couple out of the 10 brands that have these PTZ 20X domes, have a 95degree up tilt. Problem is, from a single story vantage, once you zoom in, you are looking way down. They need to allow UP, so you can see higher up, AND if you want watch the skies or mountains around, etc.
So that limitation I find me going for other models of cameras. The PTZ with bullet style, did allow for up tilt, yet the Inesun I had which WAS great, did stop tilting up, and eventually that PanTilt motor died.

What are some of your thoughts on the different points I make?

 

[wittaj]

You are buying toy cameras LOL.

Many of us have been there, including me LOL. Buy a real PTZ and be amazed!

 

[wittaj]

Buy this one and you can look straight up.

EmpireTech PTZ1A2M-25X 2MP 25× Starlight IR 4.8mm–120mm Vari-Focal Pos

2MP, 1/2.8" CMOS 25x optical zoom Starlight technology IR distance up to 150 m Auto Tracking 3.0 Perimeter protection Face detection Video Metadata IP67

empiretech01.com

 

[Flintstone61]

I'm not sure Jidetech has improved much since I tried a 2MP PTZ....be interesting to see if the UI is still in Eygptian Hieroglyph

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

Looks like the same sensor. Thought 2mp vs 8mp.
OK, so the Pan and Tilt is much better on this...I really dont care much for Ai unless it actually knows to track and zoom for license plates or something impressive and useful.
$500+ LOL...I think the cams I am looking at maybe toys, but this cam at $500+ must be a joke

 

[wittaj]

Sometimes you get what you pay for. Take what you paid for the PTZ toys and you could have bought a better PTZ.

Speaking from experience with 3 ptzs sitting in a box because they were all crap. All because I thought saving $100 bucks was worth it.

I will take my 2MP camera over your 8MP camera on the same size sensor all night long.

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

Actually the image quality and 130-160 ft of IR is excellent. Its the Ai that is lack luster, and the fact that it cant tilt up. The JideTech autofocuses too much, while the Jennov does not have that issue.
A couple of these models do tilt 95 vs 90(as these do just 90degrees), but not many do.
Even the PT speed and response is rather smooth and fast enough. Not the fastest. 2 way audio, event alarms, etc.

JideTech HAS improved a lot, as others like Jennov. The JideTech browser UI is very much updated, and working well with current browsers.

With $400 I can have 2 areas covered vs $520 for older single cam 2MP resolution. I am sure the sw is good, but come on, we know you are selling this brand. Its multiple posts I see you suggesting the same stuff.

I agree that sometimes you get what you pay for. but in a high competative market, you can get some great cameras for very good prices. I run a lot of cameras, and I have had a couple duds, but mostly, they are rather great. One of my favs is the mini PTZ, the PTZIP-204WX4IR.
This was $80-90, and sometimes $150-200. I run a few of these. Granted, their new firmware does not update, as the audio I am not sure if a setting I changed or what, but I am not getting audio out of it at the moment, so I tried to update firmware (usually, if not broke, do not fix), but no dice.
Its a no name brand, but a decent web UI and all functioning.

So if you know what to look for you can get great deals. I remember how much wider this industry was decades ago when Pelco was the goto company. So the trickle down has other brands trying to 1up like Pelco, but in reality, unless you are doing serious business and protection with your company name as a provider and charge for the product because you actually depend on the customer support, all that good stuff, that can be important and worth it for the right person....gets tossed out the window, in my opion.

FYI, If someone would make a ceiling mount available for these smaller pendant cameras, they can make a few bux. As of now, only 48mm opening mounts are available, and I keep seeing requests for the 38mm so they can convert from wall mount to ceiling/overhang.

 

[wittaj]

I'm not selling the camera and have zero financial interest in it or the brand. I recommend products that I find value and have trust in. I do the same if friends ask my thoughts on cars or tvs or just about anything lol.

Just because someone recommends something doesn't mean they have a financial interest in it. If that were the case I would suggest you have a financial gain in JideTech lol.

I have a $279 Sunba as my first attempt into tracking PTZ because I didn't want to pay $399 for a PTZ everyone recommended here (49225 PTZ). Something psychological about crossing $300 LOL. Well it sucks and was motion blur at night and while it is still in use just for kicks in grins, it is useless because despite whatever I do the stupid thing wants to spin back looking at the house every couple of days and when it does actually look into the yard the focus is now broke.

So about 6 months after using that Sunba purchase, I broke down and bought the $399 PTZ everyone recommends here and was shocked at the difference and wished I just spent the extra $120 to begin with. Now I wasted $279 on a PTZ that doesn't work because I wanted to save a few bucks.

And oh yeah, I don't have that PTZ I suggested, but two of my neighbors do and love it. I simply linked that because you were complaining about your toys not being able to look up. Even my Sunba has 5 degrees of upward tilt. I opted for the $400ish versions of the Dahua PTZs because they have 15 degrees upward angle which is more than adequate on a single story and allows me to see enough of the sky. The extra $100ish to look straight up wasn't of value to me.

Having played with these types of cameras enough, I will take my 2MP camera over your 8MP camera that are both on the same size sensor ALL NIGHT LONG. Your 8MP on the same 1.2.8" sensor needs 4 times more light than my 2MP to produce the same brightness image. Now trickle that down. To make the image brighter, you need to up brightness and gain and slow down the shutter. All of that introduces noise and motion blurring. Those chasing MP are foolish, especially when it is on a sensor designed for 2MP. The is the first clue of a budget camera. And we see many people come here upset that the higher MP camera sucks at night. Like the example I posted in the other thread you commented on.

Please post a video or screen capture of this excellent image quality you are obtaining from your camera of an object at motion at night. Maybe you have found a cheaper camera that is just as good and I could recommend it, but that wouldn't mean I have financial gain in the recommendation....

 

[steve1225]

Those days is very easy to order from OEM manufactures in China any hardware for Your specification. And then sells it under Your brand.

The hard part is to write firmware/software for it.
Today firmware for good HIK or Dahua cams are years of work. They required developing all technologies which are there added year after year.

Things like auto tracking with movement/zoom/focus prediction require lots of skill & technology & time & budget.
Dahua/HIK required many years to do it properly.

Cheap brands don't have this. They usually use what OEM manufacture gives them as base firmware. Sometimes they steals binary modules or even firmware from HIK / Dahua using similar hardware.

If you want something which work, don't buy cheap Chinese toy brands..

 

[TonyR]

I am sure the sw is good, but come on, we know you are selling this brand. Its multiple posts I see you suggesting the same stuff.

"We?" I'll do my own finger pointing, thank you.
People that make assumptions and unfounded statements are the ones doing this forum a disservice, not those offering advice based on actual, firsthand experience.
Being able to listen and understand can be to one's advantage.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I agree that sometimes you get what you pay for. but in a high competative market, you can get some great cameras for very good prices. I run a lot of cameras, and I have had a couple duds, but mostly, they are rather great. One of my favs is the mini PTZ, the PTZIP-204WX4IR.
This was $80-90, and sometimes $150-200. I run a few of these. Granted, their new firmware does not update, as the audio I am not sure if a setting I changed or what, but I am not getting audio out of it at the moment, so I tried to update firmware (usually, if not broke, do not fix), but no dice.
Its a no name brand, but a decent web UI and all functioning.

I don't have any financial stake in any brand of camera. I ran across this forum in my quest to chase megapixels and paid attention to the advice I was given. So far, I have not been given bad information. If anyone who provided me that information benefitted financially, and I'm not trying to imply they do or don't, it doesn't change the fact that the information was beneficial to me and my needs. My goal was to create a surveillance system I would have wanted to see back when I was a detective. Based on the comments I've received from local detectives to whom I've provided footage to for incidents in the neighborhood, I'd say that's happened.

I looked up the camera you mentioned to see if maybe I could find that hidden gem that nobody is talking about. First of all, I didn't see anyone offering it for under $250. And, based on your post, it's not working all that great and there doesn't seem to be any customer service support for it. Why would I not go with a name brand with similar specs for less money?

EmpireTech PTZ1A4M-4X-S2 1/2.8" CMOS 4MP 4x Starlight IR 2.8mm–12mm Va

1/2.8" 4Megapixel CMOS | 4x optical zoom | Starlight technology | Max. 25/30 fps@4MP | IR distance up to 20 m | Perimeter protection | Face detection | SMD 3.0 | Built-in Mic | IP66 | IK08

empiretech01.com

I even think taking my chances with a refurb (usually, in my experience, simply a returned camera that has never been installed) camera with the same zoom but a much better mp to sensor size ratio for the price you talked about getting your "not a dud even though it isn't fully working" camera?

EmpireTech Refurbished PTZ222IR-4X 2MP 1/2.8" CMOS 4x Starlight PTZ Ne

1/2.8” STARVIS™ CMOS Powerful 4x optical zoom Support triple-streams encoding WDR, Day/Night(ICR), Ultra DNR Max. 25/30fps@1080P· Max 100°/s pan speed Support PoE IP66, IK10

empiretech01.com

 

[Phil Indeblanc]

I looked up the camera you mentioned to see if maybe I could find that hidden gem that nobody is talking about. First of all, I didn't see anyone offering it for under $250. And, based on your post, it's not working all that great and there doesn't seem to be any customer service support for it. Why would I not go with a name brand with similar specs for less money?

EmpireTech PTZ1A4M-4X-S2 1/2.8" CMOS 4MP 4x Starlight IR 2.8mm–12mm Va

1/2.8" 4Megapixel CMOS | 4x optical zoom | Starlight technology | Max. 25/30 fps@4MP | IR distance up to 20 m | Perimeter protection | Face detection | SMD 3.0 | Built-in Mic | IP66 | IK08

empiretech01.com

It works great, Often available for under $120 (cheapest was 89 or 90), I have purchased it 3 times for about $120 over the past 4 years. Regardless of the update on one and audio, the camera is very good. I am not new to this, and have worked in the industry years back. I considered doing it as a business at one point, but prefer it as a technical cool hobby, and personal use. I have helped source and setup systems for a dozen or so of relations.

I dont disagree with these replies for the most part. Yes, if you are looking for more automation, software is the important factor.

I'm glad to hear that there is a single brand that matters here and looks like they are the only ones doing it right, in a sea of hundreds of brands. No harm in that.
Go EmpireTech!

 

[wittaj]

No where do we say that a single brand is all that matters here and that they are the only ones doing it right....

One camera brand cannot be the be all, see all. Each camera is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera and brand.

You do realize that EmpireTech is Dahua OEM and Dahua makes hundreds of brands of cameras? Same with Hikvision.

They are the big players in the industry, so of course their gear is going to be recommended more...

Right now most of us feel like Dahua is the leader in the group. Plus Hikvision and their OEMs are getting more difficult to find in the USA compared to Dahua OEM.

And you have to remember who most of the members are here - people that care for IDENTIFY capabilities.

Many, just like me, went years and years just accepting that cameras sucked at night in low light. It wasn't until we found this site that we see that there are cameras that are quite capable in low light.

My Sunba and JideTech had Hikvision internals and you could tell the firmware was Hikvision based, but as @steve1225 mentioned, the companies then don't know what to do with it and it fails miserably for most of our use cases.

And the kicker, most of the cameras recommended here are cheaper than what people pay for a Ring camera! People will spend over $250 for a Ring camera that can't come close to the capabilities of the 5442 camera that sells for around $190.

A few examples:

EmpireTech sells a doorbell camera....yet most here recommend the Reolink Doorbell. There isn't much that Reolink does right, but the doorbell they do.

EmpireTech sells a 180 camera....yet many here recommend the Annke/Hikvision equivalent.

EmpireTech sells Full Color type cameras...yet many recommend Hikvision versions because unlike the Dahua, many of the Hikvision is also equipped with infrared.

But just because we care about IDENTIFY doesn't mean we don't recommend other stuff. It is based on the use case. Most here want IDENTIFY capabilities. But for those that don't we offer other recommendations, dare we say even sometimes Ring.


At the end of the day, I (and most of us) will recommend cameras that represent good value and performance. If someone comes here and shows a cheaper camera that can perform close or as well or better, I will be the first to recommend it.

I, and others, have asked you to provide examples at night with an object in motion showing the "excellent" image quality you state you are getting at 160 feet with infrared. Or even a closer object in motion. Again, not a static image, an image with an object in motion. Everyone's interpretation of excellent image quality is subjective. I don't think most of my images would qualify as excellent, but they are good enough to IDENTIFY, especially compared to the junk I had previously. This is where we separate the good performing cameras from the poor performing cameras.

 

[looney2ns]

@Phil Indeblanc
We await your video proof.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm glad to hear that there is a single brand that matters here and looks like they are the only ones doing it right, in a sea of hundreds of brands. No harm in that.
Go EmpireTech!

Is it possible that two people could have experience with multiple brands and have independently decided the best value is the same brand as the other person also chose?

 

[wittaj]

Looks like the same sensor. Thought 2mp vs 8mp.
OK, so the Pan and Tilt is much better on this...I really dont care much for Ai unless it actually knows to track and zoom for license plates or something impressive and useful.
$500+ LOL...I think the cams I am looking at maybe toys, but this cam at $500+ must be a joke

So I don't have my PTZ set up to track cars because, well it doesn't make much sense to waste PTZ cycles on cars going by. I get the car color and plate with other cameras and can see where the car goes with overview cameras. I use the autotracking for people.

But for kicks tonight I thought "hey let me crank up the target size and let it track some cars and see what happens".

Not too shabby at 570 feet with the $399 Dahua/EmpireTech 49225 PTZ. No streetlights either. Tracked it for just under 1,000 feet, or the entire range of view of the PTZ. My $279 Sunba couldn't even come close to this.




As I said, I wish I could've justified to myself to spend the extra $120 the first time and not wasted $279 trying to be cheap on a Sunba that now refuses to hold presets and constantly will spin back to this view at some point during the day no matter what I do (factory resets and redoing the presets did nothing), and oh usually when it does actually go to the preset it is supposed to go to, it is blurry:



Sometimes you do get what you pay for....