Show me your Smart IR being Smart

[bigredfish]

I wish Dahua could get the basics working, or fix what they broke, before building the next spaceship.

• Make Smart IR Smart again like this clip from a 2MP CVI analog cam from 2017
• Make the light sensor work again as below (B&W>Color>B&W) changes MUCH faster than current IP cams and with far less image disruption

Watch for the Smart IR and color/b&w transitions from a 2MP Analog 2017 camera (especially the very end for real Smart IR) Much better than 90% of my new IP cams

 

[Heavyopp]

Ivs triggering on small animals when set to human is what gets me.
Squirrels and birds give me false triggers everyday.

 

[Teken]

I agree both Dahua & Hikvision seem to be releasing a lot of shit hardware that cover every possible dollar scale.

I mean it’s only 2024 and Dahua still can’t offer video hardware that incorporates a low drift RTC clock!

Never mind their shit handling of Micro SD cards?!?

Than you have Hikvision releasing identical looking hardware under their marquee lines with 1990 technology???

That is only eclipsed by both of them still using plugins and not HTML5!

Every second year both of them especially Dahua will release some kind of toy like product.

Yet won’t fix existing problems on hardware that could just be stellar on all levels but they simply won’t or just drag their ass doing so.

Both companies are doing the Ford / GM thing like releasing a Mustang in 4, 6, 8 cylinder engines.

If a person doesn’t take the time to read the specifications and just goes by the physical appearance they will end up with a 1/3 sensor vs 1/1.8” imaging sensor and WDR of 120 vs 130 ~ 140!

Probably the worst offender is Hikvision offering fake (restricted) human / vehicle detection with zero ability to fine tune!

The Smart Lighting and quick IR transition in that video is truly shameful when speaking about the so called latest and greatest 2024 tech!

I’ll freely admit this is why I still use a limited amount of legacy hardware. Because some basic features just work great!

Great example video . . .

 

[steve1225]

Some time ago I did longer answer on Reddit to question: Which is better HIK vs Dahua...
It describes very well the big problem with Chinese camera OEM manufactures..
They are all almost the same good and bad in different categories..

Some of the problems are from the fact that both HIK and Dahua DON'T DEVELOP own hardware and a new features.
Everything is delivered by external companies (mostly by SOC manufacturers like HiSilicon as part of SDK plus some external software houses).

Things like StarLight / FullColor / Deep-Light 3/4/5 gen ISP video processing, SMD, IVS, VideoMetaData, AcuPick, AI SSA, AI Encoding, SmartCodec etc. are marketing names for technologies delivered by HiSilicon as part of new generations of SOCs.. If you will look at newest HIK cams (DarkFighter2) they have exactly the same features, simply HIK use different marketing names..

Both Dahua and HIK only combine individual elements and technologies delivered by external companies doing fine-tuning and differentiating them between camera lines and models to increase profit..

They want to sell.. not to support.. support is problem of resellers not HIK/Dahua..

-- Original my article from Reddit --

Similarity:

• both are the biggest cctv manufactures in the world and both are based in China,
• both are OEM's - so only some part of productions are sold under main brands (HIK / Dahua).. there are hundreds other brands which are in reality HIK or Dahua products rebranded under different logo,
• both offers products / solutions for different market segments at different price points... from cheapest analog cameras for 50 USD with bad performance to very costly ultra line high-end thermal / PTZ / multi sensor / AI solutions for 5k+ USD each...
• both are using very similar hardware / firmware / software technology... reality is that both are using SOCs (chipset with CPU/GPU/ISP/NPU) and image sensors from the same mostly Chinese suppliers which develops base firmware SDK / drivers / software for that tech..
• both companies are heavily copying each other - so if one put a new product with specific new feature or new usage scenario, second one usually will do the same in next 6-12 months,
• excluding cheapest lines, both produce mostly very good hardware for very good price..
• both companies sucks at firmware development - lots of bugs, not finished features, compatibility problems, fast forgotten products with no new firmware, limited support for html5 video (both require archaic plugins in Internet Explorer mode),
• both companies are terrible at software development. Mobile apps (HikConnect / DMSS) are bad / buggy / have old and not intuitive UI.. Desktop apps are horrible and almost not developed any more.. Cloud solutions (P2P) are primitive and very unstable.

I see main 3 differences:

• HIK have much faster product cycle.. it put hundreds of similar products models with almost identical spec sheet.. decoding features / differences from model numbers are much harder comparing to Dahua.. much faster forgets about previous models or revisions with no new firmware.. having 3 years of stable firmware upgrades with a new features for one product is unheard of in HIK world..

Dahua is releasing a lot less new product variants - and they are much easy to differentiate. There are 4 main lines (Lite 2xxx, Lite Pro 3xxx, PRO 5xxx, Ultra with higher numbers) and Dahua models numbers coding much more practical informations about product specification. Also support is much more stable - most products from PRO or higher have 3-year product cycle with stable firmware upgrades.. Dahua have history of adding to PRO / ULTRA products new important features even after 1-2 years of product life..​

• Dahua have better NVR and camera UI (HDMI local, web services) - they revamped NVR UI 4 years ago and camera UI 1.5 years ago.. HIK for years had very not logical UX - it was very hard to find features / options especially on NVR.. This year HIK did big revamp of his NVR 5.0 UI and camera 5.0 UI - but they have very long list of missing/not working features in a new UI and resolving this will take some time...
  
  
• in Europe (this can be different in USA or different continents) HIK have very minimal / almost not existing support. You must really on installers or distributors... which are providing support / courses behalf HIK.

 

[Teken]

Some time ago I did longer answer on Reddit to question: Which is better HIK vs Dahua...
It describes very well the big problem with Chinese camera OEM manufactures..
They are all almost the same good and bad in different categories..

Some of the problems are from the fact that both HIK and Dahua DON'T DEVELOP own hardware and a new features.
Everything is delivered by external companies (mostly by SOC manufacturers like HiSilicon as part of SDK plus some external software houses).

Things like 3/4/5 gen ISP video processing, SMD, IVS, VideoMetaData, AcuPick, AI SSA, AI Encoding, SmartCodec etc. are market names for technologies delivered by HiSilicon as part of new generations of SOCs.. If you will look at newest HIK cams (DarkFighter2) they have exactly the same features, simply HIK use different marketing names..

Both Dahua and HIK only combine individual elements and technologies delivered by external companies doing fine-tuning and differentiating them between camera lines and models to increase profit..

They want to sell.. not to support.. support is problem of resellers not HIK/Dahua..

-- Original my article from Reddit --

Similarity:

• both are the biggest cctv manufactures in the world and both are based in China,
• both are OEM's - so only some part of productions are sold under main brands (HIK / Dahua).. there are hundreds other brands which are in reality HIK or Dahua products rebranded under different logo,
• both offers products / solutions for different market segments at different price points... from cheapest analog cameras for 50 USD with bad performance to very costly ultra line high-end thermal / PTZ / multi sensor / AI solutions for 5k+ USD each...
• both are using very similar hardware / firmware / software technology... reality is that both are using SOCs (chipset with CPU/GPU/ISP/NPU) and image sensors from the same mostly Chinese suppliers which develops base firmware SDK / drivers / software for that tech..
• both companies are heavily copying each other - so if one put a new product with specific new feature or new usage scenario, second one usually will do the same in next 6-12 months,
• excluding cheapest lines, both produce mostly very good hardware for very good price..
• both companies sucks at firmware development - lots of bugs, not finished features, compatibility problems, fast forgotten products with no new firmware, limited support for html5 video (both require archaic plugins in Internet Explorer mode),
• both companies are terrible at software development. Mobile apps (HikConnect / DMSS) are bad / buggy / have old and not intuitive UI.. Desktop apps are horrible and almost not developed any more.. Cloud solutions (P2P) are primitive and very unstable.

I see main 3 differences:

• HIK have much faster product cycle.. it put hundreds of similar products models with almost identical spec sheet.. decoding features / differences from model numbers are much harder comparing to Dahua.. much faster forgets about previous models or revisions with no new firmware.. having 3 years of stable firmware upgrades with a new features for one product is unheard of in HIK world..

Dahua is releasing a lot less new product variants - and they are much easy to differentiate. There are 4 main lines (Lite 2xxx, Lite Pro 3xxx, PRO 5xxx, Ultra with higher numbers) and Dahua models numbers coding much more practical informations about product specification. Also support is much more stable - most products from PRO or higher have 3-year product cycle with stable firmware upgrades.. Dahua have history of adding to PRO / ULTRA products new important features even after 1-2 years of product life..​

• Dahua have better NVR and camera UI (HDMI local, web services) - they revamped NVR UI 4 years ago and camera UI 1.5 years ago.. HIK for years had very not logical UX - it was very hard to find features / options especially on NVR.. This year HIK did big revamp of his NVR 5.0 UI and camera 5.0 UI - but they have very long list of missing/not working features in a new UI and resolving this will take some time...
  
  
• in Europe (this can be different in USA or different continents) HIK have very minimal / almost not existing support. You must really on installers or distributors... which are providing support / courses behalf HIK.

That was a great summary of the different elements that affect each hardware maker. I’ll add a few more as it relates to Hikvision firmware vs Dahua.

It goes without saying the likes of Andy and the many IPC contributors have been instrumental in fixing bugs and adding features at various times.

I’ve not seen this with Hikvision - ever!

Hikvision also falls behind in supporting the latest networking protocols and standards. Think RTMP, TLS, never mind both companies offer absolute shit support for SNMP!

In 2024 both of these companies offer complete shit SNMP support and the MIBS offer zero useful information and metrics!

Why the fuck wouldn’t I need to know the uptime?!? How about actual working SNMP Traps that call out login events, or any other events I want to know about?!?

Lastly, how both of these companies handle certificates!

It’s like they hired a Fucken retard to handle the security portion of the hardware!

 

[Mike A.]

I don't think that I've ever seen any Dahua cam where Smart IR really works very well. Mostly it screws with overall image (darkens too much) in the background independent of settings so for mine better just left off.

 

[bigredfish]

Right? But then you sacrifice close in IR due to washout or longer range IR to tame the close in

 

[Teken]

Right? But then you sacrifice close in IR due to washout or longer range IR to tame the close in

In the video you offered the transition from colour to night was instant. Also near the end of the video everybody’s face was well lit and no wash out.

Given it’s analog the video is also instant without any lag.

It’s the only reason I still use and have legacy video hardware in place as a backup / fail over system.

 

[Mike A.]

Right? But then you sacrifice close in IR due to washout or longer range IR to tame the close in

Best solution that I've found for that is separate IR with on-cam IR and Smart IR off and a little faster exposure. You can get that really high-contrast slide film look like that. Looks on the darker side with nothing in frame but when you get a face/critter it looks great.

 

[bigredfish]

Two more from a similar 2MP 2241 (I think) CVI cam. I had 3-4 still in service at my old place in 2021 because they just worked....If it wasnt for the lack of a true day/night profile including exposure, I'd probably still have some CVI cams

My latest IP cams dont handle this nearly as well, some not at all..

Doing the MAffs
View attachment Home_ch4_20210316043825_20210316043931.mp4














Pardon me, no pardon ME
View attachment Home_ch4_20210201050522_20210201050659.mp4

 

[Teken]

I’m kind of on the fence as it relates to the how the IR output is done on this example. Maybe I’m just spoiled in having a slower transition vs an immediate drop in IR output.

Great examples thanks for sharing.

 

[Oneup]

I feel that the Dahua cameras years ago had better smart IR function than the ones the last few years. I Never use smart IR, because it is not very smart. Actually I think it is pathetic, also. I set IR light to a manual setting for the location and leave it.

 

[bigredfish]

I’m kind of on the fence as it relates to the how the IR output is done on this example. Maybe I’m just spoiled in having a slower transition vs an immediate drop in IR output.

Great examples thanks for sharing.

Yes the difference is the distance to the target. Both of those the critter is very close to the camera, like 2ft, and appears rather quickly.