IPC-Color4K-T 4K

[bigredfish]

No, change the actual size of the image on the screen. Make it bigger or smaller.

Like in multi-cam view, the jagged may show, but not in full-screen, or vice versa.

And yes these cameras need a higher bitrate, but if the jagged lines bother someone too much, they may have to lower the bitrate to soften it more if dropping the sharpness results in too much soft.

Ok you’re talking about manually messing with the original size of the image. Blowing it up beyond 100%. Sure I get that. Just like digital zoom on video, same thing, I’m stretching pixels beyond what they were recorded at.

When I post an image it’s native. When you click on it to see it separate from the post it’s still native. But I can keep clicking or on a iphone spreading with two fingers, and make it physically bigger, distorting it past its original resolution, it goes to shit.

On his image with the white vehicle, the image is jagged at what should be native size. There’s something else going on there. The original image at 100% should not have that severe jagged edges

And as I noted, his .png is showing a far less than normal resolution and file size. I’m guessing it’s a substream export and not mainstream. Maybe from a phone?

@Olddawg how did you grab/export that image?

 

[wittaj]

Ok you’re talking about manually messing with the original size of the image. Blowing it up beyond 100%. Sure I get that. Just like digital zoom on video, same thing, I’m stretching pixels beyond what they were recorded at.

When I post an image it’s native. When you click on it to see it separate from the post it’s still native. But I can keep clicking or on a iphone spreading with two fingers, and make it physically bigger, distorting it past its original resolution, it goes to shit.

On his image with the white vehicle, the image is jagged at what should be native size. There’s something else going on there. The original image at 100% should not have that severe jagged edges

And as I noted, his .png is showing a far less than normal resolution and file size. I’m guessing it’s a substream export and not mainstream. Maybe from a phone?

@Olddawg how did you grab/export that image?

No I am not talking about digital zoom and blowing it up beyond 100%.

I am talking about the actual size of the image based on what one is doing.

For example, when in the camera GUI and I am changing settings, I may see that jagged look in the smaller image to the left when I am changing brightness, etc. but it is not there in full screen, or vice versa.

Or if the cameras are in 8 camera view instead of 4 camera view. Or the multi-cam view where you can make one camera larger than others - it may show up when in one of those sizes, but not the other.

Or from the GUI I go from having the web browser be full screen to a smaller screen - it may do that in one but not the other.

And some field of views are worse than others - bricks, fences, any distinct parallel lines can make it worse, especially if they are along the edges of the field of view.

And as we know from scenes with lots to resolve, sometimes there just isn't enough bitrate for everything going on.

And sometimes it can be the person's monitor - either it isn't fast enough refresh or the actual size of the monitor causes that phenomena. It happens a lot on my laptop more than the larger monitor as an example.

 

[bigredfish]

No I am not talking about digital zoom and blowing it up beyond 100%.

I am talking about the actual size of the image based on what one is doing.

For example, when in the camera GUI and I am changing settings, I may see that jagged look in the smaller image to the left when I am changing brightness, etc. but it is not there in full screen, or vice versa.

Or if the cameras are in 8 camera view instead of 4 camera view. Or the multi-cam view where you can make one camera larger than others - it may show up when in one of those sizes, but not the other.

Or from the GUI I go from having the web browser be full screen to a smaller screen - it may do that in one but not the other.

And some field of views are worse than others - bricks, fences, any distinct parallel lines can make it worse, especially if they are along the edges of the field of view.

And as we know from scenes with lots to resolve, sometimes there just isn't enough bitrate for everything going on.

And sometimes it can be the person's monitor - either it isn't fast enough refresh or the actual size of the monitor causes that phenomena. It happens a lot on my laptop more than the larger monitor as an example.

Right I get that, may be semantics, but in each of those cases you're manually (or the program window its appearing in is manually) altering the aspect ratio and in some cases the resolution of the image. Nothing new there, basic image display.

Thats not what is happening to his sample image, unless he took a screenshot and its not an original exported image, or its exported as substream or the image is not a full main stream export from a 4K camera unless his resolution is wayyyyy off

If his sample was original resolution/ratio to begin with before he uploaded it, I should be able to see that. It wasn't, but I'm not sure what he did to export it and what if any manipulation occurred before upload.

Based n the output of MediaInfo, its a substream? or maybe a windows screencap of the actual image, not the original

 

[Olddawg]

Ok you’re talking about manually messing with the original size of the image. Blowing it up beyond 100%. Sure I get that. Just like digital zoom on video, same thing, I’m stretching pixels beyond what they were recorded at.

When I post an image it’s native. When you click on it to see it separate from the post it’s still native. But I can keep clicking or on a iphone spreading with two fingers, and make it physically bigger, distorting it past its original resolution, it goes to shit.

On his image with the white vehicle, the image is jagged at what should be native size. There’s something else going on there. The original image at 100% should not have that severe jagged edges

And as I noted, his .png is showing a far less than normal resolution and file size. I’m guessing it’s a substream export and not mainstream. Maybe from a phone?

@Olddawg how did you grab/export that image?

It was Blue Iris clicked on substream to show main stream. Paused main stream and then did a Snip using Windows Snip.

 

[bigredfish]

What is your main stream bitrate and resolution?
I dont know my way around BI, but isn't there a way to export a real full stream snapshot at native 4K resolution and say 10-12MB bitrate??

Do you have to run such a low bitrate and resolution because BI can't handle full resolution an high bitrate?
Not wanting to get into a discussion that always seems to be the BI defense of "well we;'re not creating Hollywood movies" and "you don't really need that high of quality"

Is it a capability issue?

I rarely see full main stream images and videos with high FPS/Bitrate posted as examples...?

 

[wittaj]

And along the discussion I was having with bigredfish LOL, when you solo the camera - there are still items on the screen that have reduced the size of the image - timeline at the bottom, alerts to the right, etc. Remove those so the image is bigger - are they still there?

Yes, in BI you can right click to get a snapshot.

BI can handle full resolution and high bitrate just fine. It can struggle with higher FPS, although many run 30FPS and claim no issues.

But yes, what is the codec, bitrate, CBR or VBR, sharpness, and size of monitor, etc. as that all impacts the image you are seeing.

 

[bigredfish]

Or maybe post a full res video clip of that same car?

That way the user (me) laptop or whatever screen will play native resolution and aspect ratio

 

[Olddawg]

What is your main stream bitrate and resolution?
I dont know my way around BI, but isn't there a way to export a real full stream snapshot at native 4K resolution and say 10-12MB bitrate??

Do you have to run such a low bitrate and resolution because BI can't handle full resolution an high bitrate?
Not wanting to get into a discussion that always seems to be the BI defense of "well we;'re not creating Hollywood movies" and "you don't really need that high of quality"

Is it a capability issue?

I rarely see full main stream images and videos with high FPS/Bitrate posted as examples...?

This is my current settings.

 

[bigredfish]

Ok so that’s fine.

Need to figure out a way to see the native video without squishing aspect ratio or downscaling resolution. I fear you’re making adjustments to an image that isn’t representative of the actual recorded file…

 

[Olddawg]

And along the discussion I was having with bigredfish LOL, when you solo the camera - there are still items on the screen that have reduced the size of the image - timeline at the bottom, alerts to the right, etc. Remove those so the image is bigger - are they still there?

Yes, in BI you can right click to get a snapshot.

BI can handle full resolution and high bitrate just fine. It can struggle with higher FPS, although many run 30FPS and claim no issues.

But yes, what is the codec, bitrate, CBR or VBR, sharpness, and size of monitor, etc. as that all impacts the image you are seeing.

Here is a Snapshot from BI fullscreen. I think it's just the pavement and bricks and nature of my system. It is not a big deal because the detail of people, cars, etc is very good compared to my previous 2MP. Like you said it is for security not Hollywood.

 

[Olddawg]

Ok so that’s fine.

Need to figure out a way to see the native video without squishing aspect ratio or downscaling resolution. I fear you’re making adjustments to an image that isn’t representative of the actual recorded file…

I think you are right. An exported video looks nice.

 

[Olddawg]

I will upload a video later. Thank you guys for the help.

 

[bigredfish]

Way better. No, or very little jaggy's.

 

[bigredfish]

I will upload a video later. Thank you guys for the help.

No real need now. That true full size full res image tells the tale. Though it may be good practice

 

[Olddawg]

I think you are right. An exported video looks nice.

 

[bigredfish]

Try edit the post and “insert”
Should drop it into your post as a part of the content vs an attachment

 

[wittaj]

That looks much better. See some in the brick across the street, but it is hard to get it all removed.