Car versus Pickup Truck

J Sigmo · Oct 20, 2020

I caught this earlier this month on four different cameras, right in front of my house. A car pulls out from the curb directly into the side of a passing pickup truck.

Some folks were doing a bit of concrete work on the across the street neighbors' driveway. One of the guys had his car parked in front of our house, and had the collision with the pickup. Obviously nobody was hurt, at least not badly, and it appears that both drivers got together to work things out amicably.

A guy showed up at our door about an hour after the wreck, but he left no message, and even though he was wearing a tee shirt with the name of a construction company on it, when I looked up the company name on-line, they had no online presence whatsoever. So I was unable to contact them to see if someone needed a copy of the video. So I have to think that everyone agreed on things, or the guy just gave up too easily trying to contact me.

While the driver of the small car obviously failed to look for traffic before pulling out, the pickup may well have been speeding (as is very common right here). So I'd be curious to find out what the outcome was as far as whose insurance paid what.

The second camera has no audio, and the three others distort badly when presented with loud sounds, so be advised that the audio may be pretty loud before you play this.

CCTVCam · Oct 20, 2020

Just a heads up, you're Youtube video has your street address in the bottom left hand corner on one of the cameras.

Number 3 .........

As for the drivers, why didn't the pickup driver sound his horn? The other driver might have stopped coming out had that happened.

J Sigmo · Oct 20, 2020

CCTVCam said:
Just a heads up, you're Youtube video has your street address in the bottom left hand corner on one of the cameras.

Number 3 .........

As for the drivers, why didn't the pickup driver sound his horn? The other driver might have stopped coming out had that happened.

That's the camera's name as used in Blue Iris, not the street address. 03 is the camera's number, and the street name is where it's aimed.

However, anyone familiar with the area will recognize the location, of course. There's even a street sign in view. Whether it's legible is a question, though.

I don't think the truck's driver saw the car pulling out until quite late. It seems like he may have swerved, but not in time to avoid the car.

concord · Oct 20, 2020

Ouch, looks like that's going cost a good penny. Looks like he forgot to check for traffic before pulling out. What is the speed limit? Around here, speed limit is usually set based on density, but can be lowered if neighborhood complains.

LJR_2019 · Oct 20, 2020

Since nobody can scientifically tell how fast the truck was going, the blame lies squarely on the person driving the car.

J Sigmo said:
I caught this earlier this month on four different cameras, right in front of my house. A car pulls out from the curb directly into the side of a passing pickup truck.

Some folks were doing a bit of concrete work on the across the street neighbors' driveway. One of the guys had his car parked in front of our house, and had the collision with the pickup. Obviously nobody was hurt, at least not badly, and it appears that both drivers got together to work things out amicably.

A guy showed up at our door about an hour after the wreck, but he left no message, and even though he was wearing a tee shirt with the name of a construction company on it, when I looked up the company name on-line, they had no online presence whatsoever. So I was unable to contact them to see if someone needed a copy of the video. So I have to think that everyone agreed on things, or the guy just gave up too easily trying to contact me.

While the driver of the small car obviously failed to look for traffic before pulling out, the pickup may well have been speeding (as is very common right here). So I'd be curious to find out what the outcome was as far as whose insurance paid what.

The second camera has no audio, and the three others distort badly when presented with loud sounds, so be advised that the audio may be pretty loud before you play this.

OICU2 · Oct 20, 2020

Just based on the video, it is my non-scientific opinion that the truck is going way too fast for that type of road. If there was a kid there chasing a ball, he'd be smoked. The driver of the car probably did look once (should've looked multiple times), but since the truck was fast, didn't see him. There are formulas to calculate the speed of a vehicle from a video but I'm lazy.

crw030 · Oct 20, 2020

Actually, I bet they could get a reasonable estimate of the speed. Given two fixed points in that picture that could be measured, and the number of partial seconds (if it's 10-20 FPS you get decent resolution of (0.1 to .05s) it took the truck to travel between them, you could get a reasonable estimate of speed from the video.

Still I think the car pulling out is at fault, but it looks like there is a crest in the road there so maybe if the truck was flying well above the speed limit they would share some responsibility.

J Sigmo · Oct 20, 2020

The speed limit here is 30mph. People routinely drive much faster than that.

The problem with getting an accurate speed from any of my cameras would be that the truck may already be braking before coming into good view. If someone a few houses up the street from me had a good shot of him driving past, you could do the trig based on the angle of view, and two fixed points, and the frame rate, and have a "vascar" type speed solution.

As it is, it would be pretty tough to know with any certainty how fast he was moving leading up to the wreck.

Regardless, the guy in the car should have been able to see the truck before pulling out. It seems like he didn't even look, but maybe he did take a glance, but not close enough to when he pulled out, and the truck's speed caught him by surprise.

windguy · Oct 20, 2020

@J Sigmo - Thanks for sharing. Great video with sound effects.
I agree with what you and others said, the guy pulling out never looked. Wasn't even close.
Lucky the pickup didn't cause collateral damage. Lots of potential to do so.
The worst part is that they shake hands when meeting. :wow:

Cordial, but not a good idea considering.

Keyboard · Oct 20, 2020

It seems that some are trying to use the speed of the truck to place the blame on the truck driver. If that's the intent, then I don't agree at all.

There are two different traffic incidents ... One is possibly speeding, and the other a definite crash/accident. Granted the truck may get a ticket if he/she was speeding, but the accident is totally the fault of the car driver.

The car was pulling out into oncoming traffic, and thus that driver is responsible for ensuring that it is safe to enter the lane of traffic and yield if not. The speed of oncoming vehicles should be considered when deciding if it is safe. Also, the car hit the truck, not the other way around. Additionally, the truck's speed didn't cause the accident, and the truck driver didn't have to wrestle with control until the car hit it.

Finally, the speed of the truck probably saved a fatality. Had the truck been going slower, then the two front-ends may have met with a possible outcome of dead drivers.

J Sigmo · Oct 20, 2020

Keyboard said:
It seems that some are trying to use the speed of the truck to place the blame on the truck driver. If that's the intent, then I don't agree at all.

There are two different traffic incidents ... One is possibly speeding, and the other a definite crash/accident. Granted the truck may get a ticket if he/she was speeding, but the accident is totally the fault of the car driver.

The car was pulling out into oncoming traffic, and thus that driver is responsible for ensuring that it is safe to enter the lane of traffic and yield if not. The speed of oncoming vehicles should be considered when deciding if it is safe. Also, the car hit the truck, not the other way around. Additionally, the truck's speed didn't cause the accident, and the truck driver didn't have to wrestle with control until the car hit it.

Finally, the speed of the truck probably saved a fatality. Had the truck been going slower, then the two front-ends may have met with a possible outcome of dead drivers.

And worse, the car might have been pushed into my POS. As it is, there was no damage to my red Exploder as far as I can tell.

But something you may not be aware of is that in an accident, at least here, if both drivers are issued citations, then the court will consider it all, and assign percentages of blame, and that affects who pays what portion of the total damages.

Speed may well have been a factor in this collision because the driver of the car can claim that they checked before pulling out, but the truck arrived sooner than it should have, and thus fooled him, or wasn't even seen because it was too far away when he checked his mirror.

Now, do I believe that? No. I think the car's driver pulled out without looking. But if the truck's driver had been issued a citation for speeding, the car's driver would have been held less than 100% liable.

The cops never came, so I'm guessing that the car driver admitted fault, and that was that, letting the truck driver get away with his speeding with no consequence. But that is just speculation.

People speed a LOT right here. It's quite dangerous, actually. I've had my vehicles parked there on the street struck three times over 30 years. Once, a hit and run. and twice with the guilty party notifying me.

The funny thing is that I also had the rear of one vehicle smashed by the neighbor with a large snow blower as he was clearing MY sidewalk. Obviously, I couldn't complain about that!

And another time, it was a young man from down the block who rang my doorbell and confessed to having mashed the other side rear of that very same Red Exploder. But since he was not insured, I couldn't collect from his insurance, and couldn't turn it in on mine without effectively ratting him out to the authorities for having no insurance.

I would have been so much better off if it had been a hit-and-run, actually. Darn that honest kid!

crw030 · Oct 20, 2020

Keyboard said:
It seems that some are trying to use the speed of the truck to place the blame on the truck driver. If that's the intent, then I don't agree at all.

I'm not trying to blame anyone, and I'm not a lawyer or traffic cop either.
I agree 100% it appears the parked driver failed to check properly before pulling out.

I'm just saying, hypothetically, if the driver of the truck was speeding (50 in a 30) and possibly even distracted driving (staring at his phone for example), the truck might end up with more than 0% responsibility for this accident.

Ok basically what @J Sigmo said lolz.

crw030 · Oct 20, 2020

J Sigmo said:
The funny thing is that I also had the rear of one vehicle smashed by the neighbor with a large snow blower as he was clearing MY sidewalk. Obviously, I couldn't complain about that!

I always worry I'll accidentally damage the neighbors BMW when I'm out snow-blowing or snow-brushing the sidewalks. Gives me anxiety because he parks right in front of my house where I must legally clean the sidewalk.

J Sigmo · Oct 20, 2020

crw030 said:
I always worry I'll accidentally damage the neighbors BMW when I'm out snow-blowing or snow-brushing the sidewalks. Gives me anxiety because he parks right in front of my house where I must legally clean the sidewalk.

I have a small snow blower and a big one. The big one is a beast, and I can completely sympathize with how easy it would be to accidentally crash into a car or your house, or whatever!

CCTVCam · Oct 20, 2020

Keyboard said:
It seems that some are trying to use the speed of the truck to place the blame on the truck driver. If that's the intent, then I don't agree at all.

There are two different traffic incidents ... One is possibly speeding, and the other a definite crash/accident. Granted the truck may get a ticket if he/she was speeding, but the accident is totally the fault of the car driver.

The car was pulling out into oncoming traffic, and thus that driver is responsible for ensuring that it is safe to enter the lane of traffic and yield if not. The speed of oncoming vehicles should be considered when deciding if it is safe. Also, the car hit the truck, not the other way around. Additionally, the truck's speed didn't cause the accident, and the truck driver didn't have to wrestle with control until the car hit it.

Finally, the speed of the truck probably saved a fatality. Had the truck been going slower, then the two front-ends may have met with a possible outcome of dead drivers.

That's because in many jurisdictions there's contributory negligence. ie if you did anything that contributed towards the accident eg travelling too fast, then the blame is apportioned on the amount that your misfeasance played in the role eg 30% speeding / 70% failure to look = 30% on truck drivers insurance and 70% on the car drivers. Insurers normally negotiate this between themselves.

looney2ns · Oct 20, 2020

J Sigmo said:
I caught this earlier this month on four different cameras, right in front of my house. A car pulls out from the curb directly into the side of a passing pickup truck.

Some folks were doing a bit of concrete work on the across the street neighbors' driveway. One of the guys had his car parked in front of our house, and had the collision with the pickup. Obviously nobody was hurt, at least not badly, and it appears that both drivers got together to work things out amicably.

A guy showed up at our door about an hour after the wreck, but he left no message, and even though he was wearing a tee shirt with the name of a construction company on it, when I looked up the company name on-line, they had no online presence whatsoever. So I was unable to contact them to see if someone needed a copy of the video. So I have to think that everyone agreed on things, or the guy just gave up too easily trying to contact me.

While the driver of the small car obviously failed to look for traffic before pulling out, the pickup may well have been speeding (as is very common right here). So I'd be curious to find out what the outcome was as far as whose insurance paid what.

The second camera has no audio, and the three others distort badly when presented with loud sounds, so be advised that the audio may be pretty loud before you play this.

You may know this, but you can share the audio from one of the other two cameras with the one that doesn't have sound in BI.

LJR_2019 · Oct 20, 2020

Yea, see how that holds up in court.

OICU2 said:
Just based on the video, it is my non-scientific opinion that the truck is going way too fast for that type of road. If there was a kid there chasing a ball, he'd be smoked. The driver of the car probably did look once (should've looked multiple times), but since the truck was fast, didn't see him. There are formulas to calculate the speed of a vehicle from a video but I'm lazy.

J Sigmo · Oct 20, 2020

looney2ns said:
You may know this, but you can share the audio from one of the other two cameras with the one that doesn't have sound in BI.

Thanks!

I guess I was vaguely aware of that when I have been setting things up at times, but I've never played with that or implemented it. I probably should, using the audio from a camera that's aimed down at my porch. It always seems to gather the best audio of them all.

We have a lot of wind here, and the audio from the cameras really suffers from it. I should set up a separate microphone with a good audio compression circuit/preamp as well as a good "dead cat" to help with wind noise, and then get a camera with a mic input and then share that camera's audio with all of the cameras mounted in that location.

Blue Iris is amazing!

Keyboard · Oct 20, 2020

CCTVCam said:
That's because in many jurisdictions there's contributory negligence. ie if you did anything that contributed towards the accident eg travelling too fast, then the blame is apportioned on the amount that your misfeasance played in the role eg 30% speeding / 70% failure to look = 30% on truck drivers insurance and 70% on the car drivers. Insurers normally negotiate this between themselves.

I'm aware of the percentage at fault thing ... it's a relatively new scam (considering the history of insuring drivers). The insurance companies have lobbied to make it legal to charge each driver with partial fault regardless of who actually caused the accident. The percentage thing is very arbitrary when you analyze it. How do you determine 30% fault of an accident? Answer ... you can't!

Even with this incident, there's no scientific way to say the truck driver was actually speeding, and thus 5,10, 15, 20, 30, 40% at fault. Although it does "appear" that the driver was going faster than the posted speed limit for that street, there's still no proof that he was. Think of it this way ... 5 seconds earlier and no accident, therefore the truck driver should be held accountable for not arriving at the point of impact sooner? That doesn't work for me.

In reality, the percentage thing is not about fault, but how the insurance companies can avoid paying the full bill for one of their client's mistakes. It saves them money (big money) in the long run.

It's a slippery slope where the insurance companies will eventually be able to say the victim is 100% at fault for owning and driving a car. That sounds sarcastic, but I'm not far off from their ultimate goal.

fenderman · Oct 20, 2020

J Sigmo said:
And worse, the car might have been pushed into my POS. As it is, there was no damage to my red Exploder as far as I can tell.

But something you may not be aware of is that in an accident, at least here, if both drivers are issued citations, then the court will consider it all, and assign percentages of blame, and that affects who pays what portion of the total damages.

Speed may well have been a factor in this collision because the driver of the car can claim that they checked before pulling out, but the truck arrived sooner than it should have, and thus fooled him, or wasn't even seen because it was too far away when he checked his mirror.

Now, do I believe that? No. I think the car's driver pulled out without looking. But if the truck's driver had been issued a citation for speeding, the car's driver would have been held less than 100% liable.

The cops never came, so I'm guessing that the car driver admitted fault, and that was that, letting the truck driver get away with his speeding with no consequence. But that is just speculation.

People speed a LOT right here. It's quite dangerous, actually. I've had my vehicles parked there on the street struck three times over 30 years. Once, a hit and run. and twice with the guilty party notifying me.

The funny thing is that I also had the rear of one vehicle smashed by the neighbor with a large snow blower as he was clearing MY sidewalk. Obviously, I couldn't complain about that!

And another time, it was a young man from down the block who rang my doorbell and confessed to having mashed the other side rear of that very same Red Exploder. But since he was not insured, I couldn't collect from his insurance, and couldn't turn it in on mine without effectively ratting him out to the authorities for having no insurance.

I would have been so much better off if it had been a hit-and-run, actually. Darn that honest kid!

The officer could not issue a speeding citation as he didn't witness the incident. He cannot cite the truck driver for speeding based on the word of the car driver because that driver does not posses the expertise to determine the speed of the truck and moreover he likely never saw the truck (presuming her would not pull into oncoming traffic). These type of property damage disputes are generally settled between the carriers.

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Car versus Pickup Truck

J Sigmo

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CCTVCam

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J Sigmo

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concord

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LJR_2019

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OICU2

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