2 Urgent Questions! (BlueIris and Hikvision iVM4200)

[larryhagman]

We bought BlueIris a few hours ago, now realise its way too complex for our needs and despite hours of trying I can’t get PTZ controls to work with Hikvision PTZ camera. No time left, I need tor refund BlueIris and go back to ivms4200.

1. Will BI refund the purchase? We didn’t use a free trial as I was so sure it would be way better than IVMS. Maybe it is, but not from our perspective (our needs are simple).

2. I have used iVMS4200 before but the new version we installed (V3.8) is obviously a new updated version. I can’t find storage server options. I read somewhere that Hikvision removed that as a free service, is that true?

PS, bonus question.... If so my plan is to install an older version and hopefully get Storage Server running so we can record to this PC as well as the NVR. If that's possible, can anyone tell me which was the last version of ivms to have storage server?

Thanks

 

[wittaj]

Why wouldn't you just have tried the demo first? This site isn't affiliated with BI and they do not monitor this site. I am not sure about options if you purchased from this site link.

Did you type in the IP address and username and PW and hit find/inspect and let BI do it's thing?

Post screenshots of your BI camera setting and the PTZ tab from the BI camera setting page.

Which PTZ model so if someone has same one running in BI they can share with you the settings.

And NEVER install a new version of anything if it is working and meets your needs - we are seeing way to many instances where a camera manufacturer is removing functionality in the camera or its VMS with an update.

 

[larryhagman]

1. Didn't know there was a demo. I could ask "why doesn't it say when you buy that you don't have to?!". My friend wanted it. I said to get from this site (for support I have received here). We found the page via the advert at the top of this forum and bought it. After installing it said enter license key so we did, then realised there's a trial.

2. "Not Affiliated" - hmm that's funny. It says that on the sales pages too, i just looked. As an affiliate marketer of a decade or more, this couldn't be more untrue and really should be changed. What they mean to say is "we are NOT Blue Iris, we are JUST affiliates of theirs"! Passing on sales for commissions is the DEFINITION of "affiliation"! Not that I care, I am not expecting support here for Blue Iris as I know the site is ONLY an affiliate (lead generation only).

3. I already said we are out of time. 4-5 hours and PTZ won't work, already checked all settings against other advice threads (where people say these are correct settings). Besides, I now see the PTZ controls are not much better (if at all) than iVMS, so it's a moot point. Blue Iris looks great for those with tech knowledge or time to read the MONSTER guides or countless 1-2 HOUR videos! I need something running fast, easy, simple. But I need recording to the PC.

4. "And NEVER install a new version of anything if it is working and meets your needs" - That's a very silly piece of 'advice' and I hope people don't read it and swallow it. It may well be good advice with iVMS or even other VMS software, but as general advice it's dangerous. If I stuck with every version of software that 'worked fine', i'd still be on Windows NT and Mac OSX Lion, and would have been hacked a hundred times by now. There's a small thing called "security" which kinda matters, and coders don't fix loopholes and vulnerabilities in every piece of software they have ever made, only the latest x number of versions as I am sure you know. I always resist software updates as long as possible generally (on the oldest SUPPORTED version of all programs I run including operating systems. But iVMS has had so many iterations and they all worked for me, the one that came up when googling for a download link just happened to be 3.8. I can easily find older ones, and will.

I see Blue Iris says all sales are final. I guess we lost the money, more research would have avoided that. As would a message on this site's sales page for it saying something like "Try before you buy, 14 days free trial, all sales are final so use the trial first". Oh well, the price of being in a rush I guess. Live and learn.

 

[larryhagman]

PS I take it the answers to my questions are:

1. - "don't know, we are not blue iris, you will need to ask them" - which is fine, thanks.

2. - "Yes storage server has been removed, you need to find older version"

As for the last one, I'd be grateful if anyone knows which version of iVMS (for Windows) was the most recent one to have Storage Server functionality. If anyone knows/cares to answer.

thanks

 

[wittaj]

No need to shoot the messenger LOL.

I was simply letting you know this site isn't BI and you would need to reach out to them about a refund...I didn't want you thinking that by posting it here that you would get a refund...

We mention here all the time about the free trial. Further it is right on the BI website just below the option to purchase it. Plus when you download it and it asks for the KEY, there is a "button" that says demo.




Generally, the software provided by the manufacturer for a camera will provide the most "functionality" for a camera, especially PTZ controls or two-way audio.

I realize you said you are out of time, yet here you are still with now two unusable pieces of software for your use. I still think providing the PTZ model may find someone that has figured out the settings to allow the PTZ controls to work. You will find BI to be way more powerful than iVM...

Well considering we are on a camera/NVR site, the statement "And NEVER install a new version of anything if it is working and meets your needs" obviously applies to cameras and VMS systems, and is actually sound advice that MOST of us here follow.

A common theme around here is don't fix what ain't broke. If the unit is working and meets your needs, in many instances an update breaks what you had working and provides you with something you didn't need. In most instances for cameras, updates are simply security vulnerability patches (usually years after the breach was found), but since we do not give our cameras internet access, the update is useless to us. Since you mention lessons learned, as it applies to VMS software (to make it clear), don't update unless you know for sure what the improvement is providing/taking away. As it relates to BI, many here are on older versions, some even version 4 because it simply works for them and what was added wasn't needed for them.

Here are issues I have seen people report here where they were upgrading just for the sake of upgrading:

• A Dahua Z12E that someone updated and then constantly reboots comes to mind.
• The Dahua 49225 and 49425 PTZ that loses autotracking with an update come to mind.
• The Hikvision DS-2DEA425IW-DW PTZ that loses autotracking with an update comes to mind.
• A Hikvision ANPR camera losing half the FPS and loses the ability to read US plates - those are big deals to have happen.
• A Hikvision ANPR DS-2CD4A26FWD camera that lost all ability to read plates - kinda makes the camera useless.
• A Hikvision camera that the user lost ability to control the LED light function at night.
• A Hikvision wifi camera that loses the ability to use wifi after a firmware update.
• Hikvision iVM4200 v3.8 - loses the free ability to use the computer as storage.
• Dahua IPC-HFW1320S that started phoning home using 60MB/hr and costing someone thousands of dollars in data overages.
• Dahua 5442 that will not allow playback of the SD card.
• Countless other instances where the camera or NVR simply bricked and became useless.
• Countless examples where the camera or NVR went into Chinese.

Don't do it unless it is fixing a problem you are experiencing or adds a feature you really need.

Hopefully someone comes along with a link or which version of iVM for you to go to., but if you can find an older one, just try it since you are out of time...

 

[larryhagman]

AGGH. What is wrong with this dang forum?! Typed a long message, selected all and copied using usual CTRL-C/CMD-C (a habit of mine in case i LOSE a long post before its published!) and POOF. It happened yesterday, three times I have typed out messages! So, here we go again, summarised version.....


Thanks

“We mention here all the time about the free trial. Further it is right on the BI website just below the option to purchase it. Plus when you download it and it asks for the KEY, there is a "button" that says demo.”

1. I don’t read the forum much, no time, occasionally I do but must have missed the mention of BI demos.

2. I didn’t go to the BI website, as I knew it was sold here and wanted to buy here to help the board since I have had help on here before. It doesn’t make it very clear near the order button on the sales page on this site, and I would suggest that is worth improving (but may cost a few sales, as in my case). I only downloaded it after purchase, so when I first saw that demo button, we already had a serial and had paid!

No matter. I doubt a refund will be possible now, which is pretty damn disappointing in itself, just deactivate the license key, else why have em? But regardless… I may as well have another look at BI, another hour or two anyway.

iVMS - we didn’t “upgrade” it. It wasn’t on this machine, new machine for this purpose, just googled for it and found a link, happened to be latest version.

My PTZ camera model is DS-2DF8236I-AELW.

I managed to get my cameras connected after much scouring the web. I have a Hikvision NVR which I hoped it would just detect and pull the camera streams from there but apparently not.
I used RTSP as I found a string online to insert in the camera import IP box. I entered:

rtsp:/user: password@ipaddress: port/Streaming/Channels/101 (then 201 and so on).

(Note: I had to insert a couple of spaces in that string to prevent the forum inserting two smiley faces in the string, It also won't keep TWO damn slashes in there after rtsp, i insert two, publish, and it turns into one.)

This worked and brought up all cameras one at a time. Good stuff. But then I noticed the PTZ controls don’t work. I have watched every video and read every tutorial I can find. I have the correct camera selected, no pan/tilt/zoom going on at all. Here are the settings I have tried.

 

[wittaj]

I hate when that happens on cut/paste!

Oh yeah I guess good point on where you bought it.

OK - I don't have this particular NVR or PTZ, but I think the issue is that it can't send the PTZ control commands thru the NVR.

@alastairstevenson is our Hik NVR expert, so maybe he can confirm as well as provide some guidance on purchasing BI from here/refund?

You seem to be computer savvy, so depending on what he says, if it can't pass the commands thru the NVR, that means you would want to get that PTZ "in front" of the NVR with a POE+ switch or POE+injector and then manually add the camera by IP address to the NVR and then go back to BI and type in the new IP address of the PTZ and do find/inspect and then it should work.

 

[larryhagman]

I hate when that happens on cut/paste!

Oh yeah I guess good point on where you bought it.

OK - I don't have this particular NVR or PTZ, but I think the issue is that it can't send the PTZ control commands thru the NVR.

@alastairstevenson is our Hik NVR expert, so maybe he can confirm as well as provide some guidance on purchasing BI from here/refund?

You seem to be computer savvy, so depending on what he says, if it can't pass the commands thru the NVR, that means you would want to get that PTZ "in front" of the NVR with a POE+ switch or POE+injector and then manually add the camera by IP address to the NVR and then go back to BI and type in the new IP address of the PTZ and do find/inspect and then it should work.

Really appreciate your trying to help. Yes putting it in front of the NVR would probably be a solution, if it weren't for the property being huge and that not really being feasible . Good idea though. The wiring that went into this took weeks, and the NVR is in a big outbuilding a long way from the house. I think at this point, since we only need viewing and PTZ control (minimally) iVMS should be sufficient. The storage is a pain in the ass, but an older version should fix that when I find one.

Thanks again, will update if i find a solution. Tried all sorts, including reddit threads etc.

For security reasons I like teh cameras being behind the NVR, so virtual host off. I have turned it on to see if thats the issue and it didn't change anything so i guess not. If I set up a system again, I might go without the NVR and just use BlueIris as its clearly powerful. But with the NXI (Acusense) abilities and the fact this NVR is already up and running, I don't think BI will add much.

PS one of the main attraction was the BI iphone app as the controls on the ivms iphone app are awful! Obviously I don't know that BI app is any better, i'd expect so, but that's another ten bucks to find out so at this point a tactical retreat may be in order, at least until I have a week or two spare to sit and really suss this. Yes I know a bit about computers and networks, but not as much as most on here. I didn't even know about rtsp until googling this stuff for hours to get cameras into BI at all!!

 

[wittaj]

OK lets try something else!

In BI, do add camera and instead of RTSP, use http and type in the IP address of the NVR along with the user and password and hit find/inspect and see if it finds the NVR. If it does, then go further down on that page under model is Cam# and then select the camera number of that camera port on the NVR - if it comes in that way, then you may gain PTZ control




BI has embedded in it UI3, which you would access by opening a browser and typing in the IP address of the BI computer and then you get a userface to access BI and it has PTZ controls. Most use that instead of the paid BI app for the phone.

 

[larryhagman]

I don't really follow the last bit, but will try the first bit! thanks

 

[wittaj]

Fingers crossed it works!

UI3 is just a name for a userface - it could have been called BI app lite or something else LOL.

But go to any computer on the same network as your BI computer and open up a browser (Chrome works well) and simply type in at the top address bar the IP address of your BI computer followed by :80 or whatever port number BI is.

It will then open up a login screen and type in the BI user and password and you will have a lite version of the BI console that works well on other computers/tablets/cell phones. Most use this instead of buying the actual BI app. Then either make it a bookmark in the browser or a shortcut on the main screen.

 

[larryhagman]

Very interesting, neat trick too. I have used VLC to get rtsp stream which I thought was super cool.

PS I found another thread on here (via Google, SCRATCH THAT, via DuckDuckGo F*** Google ) - What is the last version of Hikvision Storage Server

I am still investigating, that version doesn't actually offer me storage server inside iVMS even though it does claim to install it. So I am still hunting on that score but will try your suggestion above first. thanks again

 

[larryhagman]

I tried what you suggested. Didn't bring stream in, screenshots:

 

[wittaj]

Ok, thanks for that screenshot - that is helpful!

It looks like you will need to add : and the port number of the NVR after the IP address and then hopefully it finds it.

 

[larryhagman]

Interestingly, I tried adding again, but didn't enter ANYTHING. I just hit find/inspect. It seems to find the NVR:

 

[larryhagman]

Trouble is, after adding, I just get no stream saying:

Cam1: No Signal

RTSP: 404 not found

I didn't ask for RTSP?!!

 

[wittaj]

Well dang. Sometimes the NVRs are easy to pull in and sometimes they are not.

So on that first screen that shows it find the NVR and you hit OK what does it do next - is that next screen what pops up?

 

[larryhagman]

Yes i clicked to highlight the NVR and hit ok. next screen is that next pic. Very weird. Just doing it again to see if i missed anything

 

[wittaj]

With Dahua, you can have an ONVIF user/password that will get that Bad response comment if it isn't right.

If you go into the HIK NVR and go to the users, is there a tab or option anywhere that says ONVIF user?

 

[larryhagman]

What's annoying is after i say 'yeah that's my NVR, go for it', it then reverts to RTSP. I am not asking for RTSP, i have it an http address with http port (80). Yet the next screen gives me only these options under HikVision, so it's clearly insisting on rtsp.



Yet, I can tell it to use RTSP from the start, i get the basic stream but nothing else.