2MP or 4K recorder (XVR)

[Ollie]

Hi,
I would like to upgrade my current analog recorder.
It is for a small store, having only 3 cameras (i might add one for an internal room).
I don't want to make big changes now, so i am more into using the current infrastructure and not for buying a NVR, which, i guess, could have been a better solution.
I found couple of Dahuha devices in which i'm interested to buy:
XVR5104HS-i3 and XVR5104HS-4XL-i3
Both support 5MP and the latest support of 4K, but also a 4K resolution output (the first - XVR5104HS - has a resolution of 1080p only, but does support 5MP cam).
For what i need now, it is enough.
Nevertheless technology is keep developing and 5MP become a standard camera. Since the first device's resolution is only 2MP, means, that i won't be able to have the benefits of a 5MB resolution , i wonder whether i should go for the last one (XVR5104HS-4XL-i3)?
thank you (attached both devices' specs).

 

[bigredfish]

I’d go with the 4K capable.
But still I’d go bigger and plan for future cams. Buy once cry once.

I have a 7000 series a love but it’s discontinued and they are pricey.

Id recommend this one in that range

HDCVI Recorders - Dahua International

HDCVI Recorders

www.dahuasecurity.com

Or same model without external alarm inputs/outputs

HDCVI Recorders - Dahua International

HDCVI Recorders

www.dahuasecurity.com

You know you can run a mix of CVI and IP cams on these right?

 

[sebastiantombs]

4MP and 8MP are the standards for cameras. 5MP is a weak child stuck on inappropriate sensor sizes.

 

[bigredfish]

^^^^^^
This

 

[Ollie]

I’d go with the 4K capable.
But still I’d go bigger and plan for future cams. Buy once cry once.

I have a 7000 series a love but it’s discontinued and they are pricey.

Id recommend this one in that range

HDCVI Recorders - Dahua International

HDCVI Recorders

www.dahuasecurity.com

Or same model without external alarm inputs/outputs

HDCVI Recorders - Dahua International

HDCVI Recorders

www.dahuasecurity.com

You know you can run a mix of CVI and IP cams on these right?

Well, but it is true for ahd as well?
As i just read (i'm new with these stuff) cvi is good for distanced cables, I don't need it, since it is a small store.
I'm not sure i know the differences between the model which you have stated and mine. Will get into details and see. Thanks.

 

[Ollie]

4MP and 8MP are the standards for cameras. 5MP is a weak child stuck on inappropriate sensor sizes.

I just wonder, if having a recorder which supports the 4/5MP resolution, but can't record its video, only at a lower format (1080p), does it mean that there is no point of buying 4 or 5MP camera?

 

[Ollie]

Well, but it is true for ahd as well?
As i just read (i'm new with these stuff) cvi is good for distanced cables, I don't need it, since it is a small store.
I'm not sure i know the differences between the model which you have stated and mine. Will get into details and see. Thanks.

Another question, if using the inferior device (1080p) with ip only mode, does it can record in a higher resolution (than 1080)?

 

[sebastiantombs]

The maximum resolution of the camera is the maximum resolution that can be recorded. The recorder can reduce resolution through processing. The simplest thing to do is to look at what the NVR can support in terms of cameras and resolution and what the total bandwidth of the NVR is. Those two factors determine how many and at what resolution an NVR will support. Always buy an NVR that supports more than you think you need so there is room to expand if needed.

 

[bigredfish]

The biggest difference between the one I show and yours is incoming bandwidth. 2x plus it goes to 8 channels vs 4 and has capacity for 2 hard drives vs 1

The spec shows for yours it will encode 4K but only up to 7 fps
All channel 4K(1 fps–7 fps); 6MP(1 fps–10 fps); 5MP(1 fps–12 fps); 4K-N, 4MP/3MP(1 fps–15 fps); 4M-N/1080P/720P/960H/D1/CIF (1 fps–25/30 fps

CVI is simply Dahuas version of analog. Some CVI cameras are longer distance capable but you don’t have to use it. Matching Dahua CVI cams to a Dahua recorder will give you the best setup. Other brands may not support all features of the NVR.

 

[Ollie]

The maximum resolution of the camera is the maximum resolution that can be recorded. The recorder can reduce resolution through processing. The simplest thing to do is to look at what the NVR can support in terms of cameras and resolution and what the total bandwidth of the NVR is. Those two factors determine how many and at what resolution an NVR will support. Always buy an NVR that supports more than you think you need so there is room to expand if needed.

I believe that you are talking about NVR in general, not about this specific device (XVR).
This one's resolution, as you mention earlier, is determined by the recording resolution.

 

[bigredfish]

The 5108 4KL you mentioned will record per the specs

1. CVI: 4K, 6MP, 5MP, 4MP, 1080P@25/30 fps, 720P@50/60fps, 720P@25/30fps.
2. TVI: 4K, 5MP, 4MP, 3MP, 1080P@25/30, 720P@25/30fps.
3. AHD: 4K, 5MP, 4MP, 3MP, 1080P@25/30, 720P@25/30 fps.

I showed earlier the encoding (playback) spec.

Your limitation will be the 64 Mbps incoming bandwidth vs the 128 Mbps on the models I suggested

 

[Ollie]

The 5108 4KL you mentioned will record per the specs

1. CVI: 4K, 6MP, 5MP, 4MP, 1080P@25/30 fps, 720P@50/60fps, 720P@25/30fps.
2. TVI: 4K, 5MP, 4MP, 3MP, 1080P@25/30, 720P@25/30fps.
3. AHD: 4K, 5MP, 4MP, 3MP, 1080P@25/30, 720P@25/30 fps.

I showed earlier the encoding (playback) spec.

Your limitation will be the 64 Mbps incoming bandwidth vs the 128 Mbps on the models I suggested

Thanks. Got it.
Is the 1080p consider to be that bad (outdated), or it is still fine? (i already order it (from abroad), i believe i can cancel, but then it will take more time to arrive.

 

[TonyR]

I tried replying to you several hours ago and I kept getting errors and it would not post, but since then @bigredfish and @sebastiantombs have provided you with excellent recommendations and answers BUT...since I typed it up and saved it, here it is:

I'd go with the second one, the XVR5104HS-4KL-I3, because it has greater bandwidth for future upgrade to more IP cameras than the first one, the XVR5104HS-I3.
Also, don't get caught up too much in the megapixel issue; many 5MP and 8MP/4K have image sensors that are not much bigger than the sensor in the 2MP so their performance in low light is not good.

These are considered minimum sensor sizes for specific megapixel ratings:

• 2MP on 1/2.8"
• 4MP on 1/1.8"
• 8MP on 1/1.2"

 

[bigredfish]

Thanks. Got it.
Is the 1080p consider to be that bad (outdated), or it is still fine? (i already order it (from abroad), i believe i can cancel, but then it will take more time to arrive.

The 5104 will take up to 5MP input and record up to 5MP.

The 1080p you’re seeing is the NVRs display capability. The video can be recorded up to 5MP. If you export a clip recorded at 5MP it will still be 5MP, the NVR itself can only output 1080p by itself.

^^^
pretty sure I’m right on that, anyone want to fact check me?

 

[Ollie]

I tried replying to you several hours ago and I kept getting errors and it would not post, but since then @bigredfish and @sebastiantombs have provided you with excellent recommendations and answers BUT...since I typed it up and saved it, here it is:

I'd go with the second one, the XVR5104HS-4KL-I3, because it has greater bandwidth for future upgrade to more IP cameras than the first one, the XVR5104HS-I3.
Also, don't get caught up too much in the megapixel issue; many 5MP and 8MP/4K have image sensors that are not much bigger than the sensor in the 2MP so their performance in low light is not good.

These are considered minimum sensor sizes for specific megapixel ratings:

• 2MP on 1/2.8"
• 4MP on 1/1.8"
• 8MP on 1/1.2"

So, im not

I tried replying to you several hours ago and I kept getting errors and it would not post, but since then @bigredfish and @sebastiantombs have provided you with excellent recommendations and answers BUT...since I typed it up and saved it, here it is:

I'd go with the second one, the XVR5104HS-4KL-I3, because it has greater bandwidth for future upgrade to more IP cameras than the first one, the XVR5104HS-I3.
Also, don't get caught up too much in the megapixel issue; many 5MP and 8MP/4K have image sensors that are not much bigger than the sensor in the 2MP so their performance in low light is not good.

These are considered minimum sensor sizes for specific megapixel ratings:

• 2MP on 1/2.8"
• 4MP on 1/1.8"
• 8MP on 1/1.2"

Thank you very much for your response.
Well, bandwidth is not my concern. I don't think i will need it (it's a small store).
My main concern is with the camera (indoor);
I'm afraid that 1080p is outdated, but from your answer, i understand, that it is still good enough (it need to catch 3-5 meter distance, not more.
I might add at the future an additional one for outdoor, then it will need to cover a greater distance.

 

[CCTVCam]

Bandwidth should be a concern. Cameras breed like rabbits and even if they don't over time, better cameras will come out that use more bandwidth individually and at some point you may find yourself needing a new NVR when simply buying a sightly better one in the 1st place would have meant you didn't. Better to spend a fraction more than to have to buy everything again down the line at 10 times the difference,

For cameras, see the current best buys.

Outdoor you want turrets - you may wantto consisder the 4Kx turret once the current bugs are ironed out. Indoor, not a question that come sup often on here. Turrets are always a good choice although often stores do use domes simply because it's much harder for theives to see which way they're pointing. That said, domes can have internal reflection issues due to nearby lighting.

Another cnsideration with NVR's is the hard drive space. Although hard drives these days are large, be careful to note the maximum size permitted if any. Worst thing you can do in any store is to buy decent cameras but a small hard drive and then have to start reducing frame rate to 1fps, bit rate to the lowest just to fit enough footage on the hard drive to giev you a decent retention period as then what you record becomes macro blocked junk which is of little use to anybody.

 

[wittaj]

The bandwidth we refer to isn't Internet bandwidth, it is the bandwidth capabilities of the NVR.

We see people here all the time that have an underperforming NVR and they have to make significant resolution downgrades because the bandwidth of the NVR can't handle the cameras.

Inside a store, 1080P should be fine. It has been my 2MP cameras that have captured the money shot for the police, and your indoor store would have much better light than my street at 2am!