3xLogic Vigil / Vistix HD camera system upgrade equipment pricing (Hikvision cams?)

[hugh]

The company I work for has a 3xLogic Vigil hybrid NVR/DVR, model PRO-32-CL-500, currently running all analog cameras. We have two quotes in hand from our local integrator for:

1. Replacing two dead analog cameras OR
2. Installing new IP cameras, a POE switch, and upgrading the NVR software

I would like to get feedback on the IP cameras he quoted and some of the pricing. Looking at the Vistix cameras on their website, it appears that they might be made by Hikvision.
http://www.3xlogic.com/3xproducts/visix-cameras

The IP camera proposal I have in hand includes the following:

[FONT=&amp]2ea. Vistix VX-1.3P-28-OD-I Camera ($285)
[/FONT]Camera Info:
This camera is not on the 3xLogic website yet, but it is a 1.3mp 3-axis dome with a 2.8mm lens. I cannot figure out what Hikvision camera this is. One possibility is a DS-2CD2112-I. Any thoughts?

Use:
He proposed that one of these cameras be placed near our office's front door, under a covered entry and the other to be used inside the building

Questions:
1. Is this an appropriate camera?
2. Should I just buy a Hikvision camera instead of the Vistix, assuming I can save some money - and that it will work with 3xLogic? I found what I think is the same camera from another company that sells Hikvision cameras under a different name for [FONT=&amp]$115.[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]2ea. Vistix VX-1.3P4-MB-I Camera ($285)[/FONT]
Camera Info:
Also not on the 3xLogic website, this is a 1.3mp mini bullet with a 4mm lens. Guessing this is the Hikvision DS-2CD2012-I camera, which can be purchased for [FONT=&amp]$100.[/FONT]

Use:
He proposed that two of these be mounted on the end of a 50' wide building (see attached diagram) to watch over vehicles parked at the end of the building.

Questions:
1. Is this an appropriate camera for the use listed above? Domes are more vandal resistant, but then there is glare to worry about. There are no Vistix turret style cameras, so he did not propose one of those.
2. Will a 4mm lens do the job, or do we need a 2.8mm lens?
3. Would the Hikvision DS-23CD2012-I work with the 3xLogic system? I can find one of those for about $100, compared to the $285 that I was quoted.

[FONT=&amp]1ea. VX-3P4-MB-I Camera ($360) [/FONT]http://www.3xlogic.com/3xproducts/3mp-outdoor-ip-bullet-camera
Camera info:
This camera is a 3mp bullet camera with a 4mm lens that looks like the Hikvision [FONT=&amp]DS-2CD2032-I[/FONT], which can be purchased elsewhere with USA warranty for[FONT=&amp] $145[/FONT] or less.

Use:
He proposed this camera as a license plate camera. The camera would be mounted about 10' from the backs of the cars and would rely, partly, on its own illumination.

Questions:
1. Again, do I pay $360 for a camera that I can buy elsewhere for $145? There is a separate line item on his quote for installation labor, so it is not wrapped up in the camera prices.
2. Is this camera suitable as a license plate reader from 10'-20' away? It seems like the 4mm lens might not be tight enough.

[FONT=&amp]2ea. 8 Channel Netgear GS110TP Gigabit POE switch ($375)[/FONT]
He did not list the model of the switch (or cameras, for that matter), but I asked and found out the switch he quoted was a Netgear GS110TP gigabit switch.

I found the switch for [FONT=&amp]$155[/FONT] and he is charging me $375. Is that normal practice for an installer to heavily mark up equipment? I'm having trouble trusting someone who marks up prices so much.

[FONT=&amp]Vigil software update[/FONT]
There is a newer version of the software for our nvr that will be required to add IP cameras to our system. We have been quoted $297 to install the new software. Does that sound right? We would be moving from version 6 to version 7.

I'm sure I left out some important information, but any thoughts on my questions above are greatly appreciated. I need to make a pitch about this proposal to our director, who thinks cameras are a waste of money. Anything I can do to bring down the price of the equipment will make the chances of us buying the equipment much greater.

[FONT=&amp]Decisions:[/FONT]
1. Do I buy a second stand-alone Hikvision, or similar, system for the end of the warehouse (attached diagram)? Or is it better to pay more and stick with one NVR? Seems like I could purchase and install the stand-alone system at a fraction of the cost of adding to the existing 3xLogic system.
2. Do I pay the integrator for the NVR software upgrade and ask the integrator to install Hikvision cameras that I purchase? Is this a kosher request?
3. Do I just deal with the higher priced cameras the integrator proposed and hope the proposal is approved by our director?

 

[bp2008]

Re: 3xLogic Vigil / Vistix HD camera system upgrade equipment pricing (Hikvision cams

Hello!

A few questions for you. What is more valuable for you, time or money?

Do you have staff who could install and maintain this stuff without the help of a professional installer?

You can purchase and set up an equivalent (or superior) system for half the money or less if you do it yourselves, but that requires certain skills and a fair amount of time. Anyone can mount a camera, drill holes, and run network cables, but not just anyone can make it look good or do it quickly and safely. If you don't really do your homework you might accidentally buy the wrong kind of network cables or get stuck with an incompatible NVR or anything like that.

I believe it is customary for installers to charge a large markup for hardware. They do need to make a living. Whether it is a fair price or not depends on a number of things. Do you have to pay more if there is a problem that requires the installer to come back and replace hardware?

If you are confident that you and/or some other competent person in the company can handle the job of installing and maintaining the system, then by all means do it yourself.

Keeping in mind that I am very much a DIY-guy with limited experience who would much rather do it myself than pay an installer for camera work, see my comments below in bold red text.

The company I work for has a 3xLogic Vigil hybrid NVR/DVR, model PRO-32-CL-500, currently running all analog cameras. We have two quotes in hand from our local integrator for:

1. Replacing two dead analog cameras OR
2. Installing new IP cameras, a POE switch, and upgrading the NVR software

I would definitely choose #2. Good IP cameras are an amazing improvement over old analog.

I would like to get feedback on the IP cameras he quoted and some of the pricing. Looking at the Vistix cameras on their website, it appears that they might be made by Hikvision.
http://www.3xlogic.com/3xproducts/visix-cameras

The IP camera proposal I have in hand includes the following:

[FONT=&]2ea. Vistix VX-1.3P-28-OD-I Camera ($285)
[/FONT]Camera Info:
This camera is not on the 3xLogic website yet, but it is a 1.3mp 3-axis dome with a 2.8mm lens. I cannot figure out what Hikvision camera this is. One possibility is a DS-2CD2112-I. Any thoughts?

Hard to say if that is the one. The 2112 (or 2132 which is the 3MP version) is traditionally a 2-axis dome, though I hear they may be quietly putting 3-axis guts inside it lately. Hikvision also has a smaller 2532 mini-dome camera that is definitely 3-axis. It has a built-in microphone but weaker infrared.

Use:
He proposed that one of these cameras be placed near our office's front door, under a covered entry and the other to be used inside the building

Questions:
1. Is this an appropriate camera? Sure. As I mentioned above, the 2532 is a smaller camera with audio (check the laws for audio recording in your state!) that may be more desirable. I would buy the 3 megapixel versions just because 1.3 megapixel isn't an aweful lot cheaper.
2. Should I just buy a Hikvision camera instead of the Vistix, assuming I can save some money - and that it will work with 3xLogic? I found what I think is the same camera from another company that sells Hikvision cameras under a different name for [FONT=&]$115.[/FONT] Hard to say if the 3xLogic NVR would be compatible. If you decide to do this all yourself, you might even consider a new NVR anyway as you will be saving a lot of money on everything el

[FONT=&]2ea. Vistix VX-1.3P4-MB-I Camera ($285)[/FONT]
Camera Info:
Also not on the 3xLogic website, this is a 1.3mp mini bullet with a 4mm lens. Guessing this is the Hikvision DS-2CD2012-I camera, which can be purchased for [FONT=&]$100.[/FONT]

Use:
He proposed that two of these be mounted on the end of a 50' wide building (see attached diagram) to watch over vehicles parked at the end of the building.

Questions:
1. Is this an appropriate camera for the use listed above? Domes are more vandal resistant, but then there is glare to worry about. There are no Vistix turret style cameras, so he did not propose one of those.
Perhaps. Bullets work just about anywhere, especially if they are high up, out of reach of a vandal.
2. Will a 4mm lens do the job, or do we need a 2.8mm lens? Hikvision's mini bullets are not available with 2.8mm lenses, so I would recommend the 2332 (3MP turret) for these.
3. Would the Hikvision DS-23CD2012-I work with the 3xLogic system? I can find one of those for about $100, compared to the $285 that I was quoted. Again, hard to say, but with the savings you could easily afford a new Hikvision NVR if necessary.

[FONT=&]1ea. VX-3P4-MB-I Camera ($360) [/FONT]http://www.3xlogic.com/3xproducts/3mp-outdoor-ip-bullet-camera
Camera info:
This camera is a 3mp bullet camera with a 4mm lens that looks like the Hikvision [FONT=&]DS-2CD2032-I[/FONT], which can be purchased elsewhere with USA warranty for[FONT=&] $145[/FONT] or less.

Use:
He proposed this camera as a license plate camera. The camera would be mounted about 10' from the backs of the cars and would rely, partly, on its own illumination.

Questions:
1. Again, do I pay $360 for a camera that I can buy elsewhere for $145? There is a separate line item on his quote for installation labor, so it is not wrapped up in the camera prices.
2. Is this camera suitable as a license plate reader from 10'-20' away? It seems like the 4mm lens might not be tight enough. With the exposure time set appropriately, it can work for license plate reading. I would consider the 6mm lens if the target location is narrow (e.g. one lane wide), but 4mm should be able to read a place from 10 or 20 feet. Note that appropriate exposure time for license plate reading usually leaves the rest of the scene quite dark at night, so don't expect to use this camera for anything else but license plates.

[FONT=&]2ea. 8 Channel Netgear GS110TP Gigabit POE switch ($375)[/FONT]
He did not list the model of the switch (or cameras, for that matter), but I asked and found out the switch he quoted was a Netgear GS110TP gigabit switch.

I found the switch for [FONT=&]$155[/FONT] and he is charging me $375. Is that normal practice for an installer to heavily mark up equipment? I'm having trouble trusting someone who marks up prices so much. That is very expensive but for all I know it is normal for an installer to charge that much. What I would do instead is get unmanaged PoE switches, not necessarily gigabit ones, like this ($80 for 8 PoE ports plus 1 uplink): http://amzn.com/B00H58P8RU and use the uplink port to connect to a different gigabit switch.

[FONT=&]Vigil software update[/FONT]
There is a newer version of the software for our nvr that will be required to add IP cameras to our system. We have been quoted $297 to install the new software. Does that sound right? We would be moving from version 6 to version 7.
$297 for a software install, huh? You can almost buy a windows PC capable of running all your cameras with Blue Iris for that. Maybe the software upgrade costs money from the manufacturer?

I'm sure I left out some important information, but any thoughts on my questions above are greatly appreciated. I need to make a pitch about this proposal to our director, who thinks cameras are a waste of money. Anything I can do to bring down the price of the equipment will make the chances of us buying the equipment much greater.

[FONT=&]Decisions:[/FONT]
1. Do I buy a second stand-alone Hikvision, or similar, system for the end of the warehouse (attached diagram)? Or is it better to pay more and stick with one NVR? Seems like I could purchase and install the stand-alone system at a fraction of the cost of adding to the existing 3xLogic system. Yes, you could do it at a fraction of the cost. It would take significant time to install though, especially if you have to go to the forums for help at every step of the way. If you have the time to spare, though, by all means do it yourself!
2. Do I pay the integrator for the NVR software upgrade and ask the integrator to install Hikvision cameras that I purchase? Is this a kosher request? I kind of doubt that is an acceptable request, but maybe one of the professional installers on this forum will chime in.
3. Do I just deal with the higher priced cameras the integrator proposed and hope the proposal is approved by our director? As you said your director thinks the cameras are a waste of money. LOL. So good luck .... if you are confident you and/or coworkers could handle the installation, running of cables, and software setup, then I'd say go with the DIY plan. Otherwise if you try to do it yourselves but nobody knows an IP address from a postal address, then you could be in trouble.

 

[hugh]

Re: 3xLogic Vigil / Vistix HD camera system upgrade equipment pricing (Hikvision cams

bp2008, Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

To answer one of your questions, I don't mind (and would prefer) to pay someone to install the equipment. My main issue is paying 2x - 3x as much for the hardware as I would otherwise.

Regarding the cameras, I guessed he was proposing 1.3mp cameras because they do a little better in low light situations, but that is at the expense of overall resolution. I was also wondering, as you suggested, if the 3mp cameras might be worth considering. He is also only quoting cameras available from Vistix, which is a very small selection. Kind of bummed about that.

Another thing that was kind of odd is that I called 3xLogic to ask them how much the software upgrade would cost and they could not tell me. They said that they charge the integrator a certain fee, but that the integrator could charge whatever they wanted to the customer. Really?!