5442, slow 4-second switch from Main Stream to Substream 1 and insistence on staying with Substream 1

[ipmania]

Total noob still in the design stage of the infrastructure. My 5442 takes about 4 seconds to switch between Main Stream and Substream or vice versa (there's an animated circular arrow while this is happening). This is annoying because I've been fiddling with the settings and I'd rather not have such a delay between making a setting change and seeing the results.

Just curious why there is this delay. I note that a cheap no-name 5MP PoE camera has no such delay when switching (near instantaneous).

Also, after displaying the Main Stream for a while, the 5442 will automatically switch to Substream 1 to "improve the video performance". I also note that the cheapie no-name camera is willing to let me stay in Main Stream for as long as I like.

I'm on a Gig-E home network as most of you are. I'm pretty sure I don't need the 5442 to be so frugal with my network resources.

PS: re: cheap cameras, I plan to have a few of Andy's 5442 cameras doing the heavy lifting (identification and fast shutter speeds at night). The cheap cameras are for (DORI) observation. I can tell the 5442 is a much better camera.

 

[wittaj]

When it is switching to "improve the video performance" that is a clear indicator that there is a bottleneck in your network somewhere and/or you are running every rated spec.

Try this for mainstream
8192 bitrate
CBR
H264
15 FPS
15 iframe

If the problem still persists, then it is a problem with your network and associated devices somewhere.

Mine will stay in mainstream as long as I want and will switch between the two quickly.

This is a real camera and will point out the weaknesses in your system quicker than a no-name cheapo camera LOL.

I suspect your camera is going thru your router?

 

[ipmania]

I rejigged the network to take the network's performance out of the equation. Formerly, the PC that I am viewing the camera's web page on (and which will also be the future BI machine) was on a switch that was a couple or 3 switches (daisy chain) away from the cameras. For now, I've relocated the PC onto the same Gig-E PoE switch as the cameras. So there is no longer any latency or inadvertent reduction in network bandwidth.

I've altered the video encoding as per your suggestions. Here is the current configuration:



Unfortunately, there is still the 4-second delay in switching between Main Stream and Substream 1.

Any other thoughts?

 

[wittaj]

go to cmd and ping the camera and see how long it takes

What computer are you using - i number and CPU gen number.

Is there a reason why you are bouncing back and forth between main and sub stream in the camera GUI - I have only done that when setting up the substream for BI purposes, but I do everything in the GUI in the mainstream.

 

[ipmania]

go to cmd and ping the camera and see how long it takes

What computer are you using - i number and CPU gen number.

Is there a reason why you are bouncing back and forth between main and sub stream in the camera GUI - I have only done that when setting up the substream for BI purposes, but I do everything in the GUI in the mainstream.

The ping time is <1ms (the camera is on the same Gig-E switch now).

Computer: i5-8500T, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD, onboard video (micro footprint HP tiny PC)
Browser: Chrome (latest version)

I'm going back and forth only because the 5442 insists on going back to Substream1 all the time for "performance" reasons. I'd rather stay in Mainstream as I tinker with it. If I change it to Mainstream, after a little while, it will go back to Substream 1.
I've added that I'm using Chrome as my browser. Does that make a difference? I had read about the need to use IE but prefer to use Chrome.

 

[JDreaming]

The ping time is <1ms (the camera is on the same Gig-E switch now).

Computer: i5-8500T, 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD, onboard video (micro footprint HP tiny PC)
Browser: Chrome (latest version)

I'm going back and forth only because the 5442 insists on going back to Substream1 all the time for "performance" reasons. I'd rather stay in Mainstream as I tinker with it. If I change it to Mainstream, after a little while, it will go back to Substream 1.
I've added that I'm using Chrome as my browser. Does that make a difference? I had read about the need to use IE but prefer to use Chrome.

You can disable sub stream for now and force the browser to use main stream only if it bother you that much. You can always enable sub stream again later when you find the cause of the problem.

 

[ipmania]

You can disable sub stream for now and force the browser to use main stream only if it bother you that much. You can always enable sub stream again later when you find the cause of the problem.

Thanks! Disabling the substream does force the use of the Main Stream. So that "fixes" the insistence on switching back to the substream.

The substream is helpful in some cases. For instance, in my current situation, I'm tweaking locations and camera angles and Main Stream is quite laggy. It's behind the "live situation" by a couple seconds or so. It's not a big deal now that I know about disabling and enabling the Substream. (I'll just enable the substream again when I'm adjusting the camera.)

It's still a curiosity though, why there is that delay. I hope the problem won't rear its head when I set up BI and connect the cameras to it.

 

[wittaj]

The T on that processor means it is designed for efficiency and will favor lower power over performance, so that isn't a good choice for a BI computer. That shouldn't be your issue right now, but the only time it switches to substream is either an issue with your system or running the camera at every rated spec.

Browser could be the issue so I would suggest trying IE and see if it improves.

Keep in mind IP cameras will have an inherent delay - could be 1 second or several depending on your system.

 

[ipmania]

The T on that processor means it is designed for efficiency and will favor lower power over performance, so that isn't a good choice for a BI computer. That shouldn't be your issue right now, but the only time it switches to substream is either an issue with your system or running the camera at every rated spec.

Browser could be the issue so I would suggest trying IE and see if it improves.

Keep in mind IP cameras will have an inherent delay - could be 1 second or several depending on your system.

Yeah the little i5-8500T was a bit of a mistake; bought it before I noticed the T. It's a good little PC though. If it works well, I'd rather use it instead of a bigger (louder) PC.

It looks like you're saying that the camera knows I can't somehow receive the Mainstream well (packets rejected at my end???) and switches to Substream. That's odd considering the speed of the network (Gig-E) and the speed of the PC.

I'll give IE a try tomorrow. Right now when I try to start it, Microsoft Edge wants to butt in, claiming IE is no longer supported. I remember someone posting the command to invoke IE somewhere here and I'll try to find it tomorrow.

My biggest concern is this: when I've got BI up and running (it's still "to-do"...), I hope there won't be this 4-second delay when an alert is triggered and it tries to record the Main Stream only to record the rotating arrow until the Main Stream comes on line.

And again, a cheapo no-name 5MP camera I'm allocating for Observation duties switches nearly instantly and lets me stay in Main Stream all the time if I want.

Thanks for continuing to work with me on this.

 

[wittaj]

For kicks and grins unhook everything else off that switch.

Let's not have it hooked to the router or internet so that all we have is the computer, switch, and camera.

If it still tries to force substream then it is an issue with the switch or computer.

 

[Perimeter]

Actually, I am having the very same problem when I use a current browser, be it edge, firefox, or edge in IE legacy mode. I don't have it when I use the real IE 11 on a 12 year old notebook with a fresh win10 install. Not sure if this is of relevance here.

The notebook cpu is an old i5-2410M. With real IE11, Mainstream runs at 6000

On my desktop, I don't have IE 11 but a relatively faster i5-3570k. I always drop to substream after a brief moment.

 

[ipmania]

Actually, I am having the very same problem when I use a current browser, be it edge, firefox, or edge in IE legacy mode. I don't have it when I use the real IE 11 on a 12 year old notebook with a fresh win10 install. Not sure if this is of relevance here.

The notebook cpu is an old i5-2410M. With real IE11, Mainstream runs at 6000

On my desktop, I don't have IE 11 but a relatively faster i5-3570k. I always drop to substream after a brief moment.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU @Perimeter for taking the time to mention that "real Internet Explorer" was your fix. I had tried the IE compatibility mode in Edge but, like you said too, that exhibited the same problem.

I just went through 3 different older computers searching for Internet Explorer but I had too-diligently done my updates and none of them had a working IE 11 anymore (they all forced me to use Edge).

BUT, surprise surprise, the Windows 10 LTSC that I had installed on my aforementioned i5-8500T machine for a lighter-weight Windows install for BI, actually still had the ability to run IE 11!!

I ran it (C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\iexplore.exe), and tried logging into the 5442's web page. IE then asked for a plug-in (that happily I had read about here on this forum, otherwise, I might have declined it). The plug-in installed and BINGO, the ability to get to the Main Stream WITHOUT THE DELAY happened!

Because I had disabled the Substream earlier, I couldn't flip back and forth. So I re-enabled the Substream and now, just like with the cheapo no-name 5MP camera, I can flip instantly between the Main Stream and Substream on the 5442! NO MORE DELAY!



Again, I appreciate you (and @wittaj ) for helping out with this.

 

[Perimeter]

The problem now is, how to get IE 11 back? Can I just copy the folder from my notebook?

 

[ipmania]

By the way, being a noob without even yet having installed BI, I am wondering to what extent this "delay" is a problem when I eventually get to the point of using BI. Is the 5442 constantly streaming both the Main Stream and the Substream to BI? Is this delay only evident when using a browser to access the camera?

--should Dahua fix the need for this ancient IE and plug-in? Like I said, even a cheap no-name 5MP camera works well with Chrome with no need for a plug in.

 

[ipmania]

The problem now is, how to get IE 11 back? Can I just copy the folder from my notebook?

I am not sure about just copying the folder back. I think Microsoft disabled the ability to run IE (I heard the files may still be on the hard drive, just you won't be able to run it).

I think the reason your 12-year-old laptop could run it was that you had a fresh install of Windows 10 but didn't do all the updates.

So technically, this is a solution: install a fresh copy of an OLD BUILD of Windows 10. And then do not do any updates.

But not doing updates poses a risk to your computer of getting hacked via exploits (I believe) and so it's not a great solution.

 

[Perimeter]

I have just received my first cam yesterday, so I basically have no clue either. But I did observe the same problem.

Have you used the Dahua SmartPSS yet? I am going to try that next.

If IE11 can manage to stream OK, it means that it is generally possible. See what smartpss does. My next construction site.

 

[ipmania]

Ok, so now this is weird. After using IE 11 and the plug-in to access the 5442 Main Stream without delay and without it reverting back to Substream, I (for some reason) used my main desktop's Chrome to access the 5442's webpage.

With Chrome on my desktop, the 4-second delay to switch between Main Stream and Substream was once again evident, but there was no reverting back to Substream again if I chose Main Stream. Before, after a while, it would always go back to Sub Stream.

It's getting really late and I need to go to sleep. So no more experimenting from me tonight.

 

[ipmania]

I have just received my first cam yesterday, so I basically have no clue either. But I did observe the same problem.

Have you used the Dahua SmartPSS yet? I am going to try that next.

If IE11 can manage to stream OK, it means that it is generally possible. See what smartpss does. My next construction site.

I don't know what SmartPSS is (I'm super new to security cams). I'll check it out tomorrow, but any test will have to wait until tomorrow (too sleepy now!). :-/

 

[Perimeter]

I don't know what SmartPSS is (I'm super new to security cams). I'll check it out tomorrow, but any test will have to wait until tomorrow (too sleepy now!). :-/

As I said, I got my first real cam yesterday, so I am also pretty new to this. (also 5442)

 

[wittaj]

I told you it could be a browser issue LOL

While it is weird to us that they use a no longer supported browser, but there is a reason...

Many manufacturers have focused the firmware around Internet Explorer (which was the standard once upon a time), even brand new cameras unfortunately. Keep in mind we are not the intended audience of Hikvision and Dahua, it is professional installers with specialized equipment and/or don't update their equipment, so they are not going to invest in changing the firmware until they see a need. As such, those end users usually don't get into the userface like we do. If you try to call Dahua they will tell you to pound salt and talk to your installer.

So until their professional installers and their intended market demand or require it, we won't see it and us complaining they don't care because we are not their intended market. They are not going to reinvent the wheel and throw put all firmware and start new until there is a need.

We are just fortunate to be able to get our hands on these cameras. And then a forum like this to help us set it up!