A new MINI PTZ with autotracking 5X zoom.

[CRowmAN]

I got my hands on 2 of these, unfortunately I have had to return them. The image quality I found really good and having the options of i/r b/w or color with the warm leds i really liked,
my back garden is very dark so i did prefer the warm light for my use there, and out front i would of used i/r mode.
the issue I had was vertical movement, if the cameras ivs rules was triggered high in the frame, after finishing tracking and returning to its home position it was fine. but if the ivs rules was triggered low in the frame and the cameras had to pan up to return home then they always stopped short of the home position meaning my rules were no longer where they was supposed to be.
I spoke to Dahua support and they believe it was either a gear or belt problem, but as both cameras suffered the same issue I just returned them. I may try them again later, a different batch as image wise and for home use they would be ideal.

 

[CCTVCam]

Manufacturing cost and camera physical size. Larger sensor needs larger optics.

I know this is an older message in this thread, but in reply I kind of agree but don't.

When you look at action cameras, many are made to a resonable budget but have larger sensors these days. eg Insta 360, DJ Osmo Pocket 3. (Both of these are mid range expensive but that's largely explained by the 360 features on the Insta and Gimble on the Pocket 3. Phone wise, the Galaxy S20 Ultra uses a 1/1.33 on at least one of it's cameras yet phone lenses are tiny, the Panasonic Lumix C1 used a 1" sensor way back in 2014.

The newly realeased Pixel 9 Pro Phone uses a 1.31" sensor on it's wide angle camera, again with a tiny lens.

So it kind of seems from this there are 2 factors that don't seem to carry over well to CCTV: - 1. Sensor Size and 2. Small but obviously very high quality lenses from phone camera results. Maybe the difference on phone sensors comes from the AI image processing improvements. Unsure how Action cameras do it for the price though when CCTV can't.

 

[steve1225]

When you look at action cameras, many are made to a resonable budget but have larger sensors these days. eg Insta 360, DJ Osmo Pocket 3. (Both of these are mid range expensive but that's largely explained by the 360 features on the Insta and Gimble on the Pocket 3. Phone wise, the Galaxy S20 Ultra uses a 1/1.33 on at least one of it's cameras yet phone lenses are tiny, the Panasonic Lumix C1 used a 1" sensor way back in 2014.

The newly realeased Pixel 9 Pro Phone uses a 1.31" sensor on it's wide angle camera, again with a tiny lens.

sport cameras, drones and mobiles are using fixed lens...
fixed lens can be very small (and short length!).

any form of lenses with changeable focal length take much more space..
and their sizes (optics path in all 3d dimensions - especially optics length) are very depended of image sensor size..

This is why on back of mobiles you have now 3-4 image sensors + fixed lenses..
not one image sensor with big optic zoom lenses..

3-4 image sensors with fixed lenses takes much less space..

So it kind of seems from this there are 2 factors that don't seem to carry over well to CCTV: - 1. Sensor Size and 2. Small but obviously very high quality lenses from phone camera results. Maybe the difference on phone sensors comes from the AI image processing improvements. Unsure how Action cameras do it for the price though when CCTV can't.

please take any normal action camera (go pro etc) and DO VIDEO (not photo, video!) at night next to Your 5442...
You will see difference, how bad they are at night conditions...

there are exceptions on market like Insta360 Ace Pro with big 1/1.3" sensor.. or latest DJI drones with the same sensor..
but there are exceptions...

And yes - AI do a lot in mobiles / sport cams..
there is huge space to improve this in cctv cam world..

 

[CCTVCam]

sport cameras, drones and mobiles are using fixed lens...
fixed lens can be very small (and short length!).

In fairness most cctv cameras are fixed length, it's only ther ptzs and zooms that aren't. I agree on the AI. Maybe that's what we're starting to see with the S3.

I've had a look at some of the recent phones night video, they don't appear bad. Not as good as Dahua / Hik though, although it has to be remembered that very few cctv cameras can do low light colour at night. Hopefully either way, we'll start to see some more improvements over the next few models whether down to AI, chipsets or both. Colour at night is always a difficult aim.

 

[steve1225]

In fairness most cctv cameras are fixed length, it's only ther ptzs and zooms that aren't. I agree on the AI. Maybe that's what we're starting to see with the S3.

I've had a look at some of the recent phones night video, they don't appear bad. Not as good as Dahua / Hik though, although it has to be remembered that very few cctv cameras can do low light colour at night. Hopefully either way, we'll start to see some more improvements over the next few models whether down to AI, chipsets or both. Colour at night is always a difficult aim.

There is another category of security cameras: dashcams...
They migrated 2 years ago in premium models to a new very upgraded Sony Starvis 2 image sensors.
There is nice video quality upgrade between old Starvis 1 and new Starves 2 dashcam models..

But all dashcams from all brands suffers from the same problem: only one SOC (processor) supplier which specialized in dashcam solution don't want to invest in further development.

If You buy 5 different dahcams from 5 different brands, all of them will start (welcome screen, start sounds) and work (menu etc) almost the same. They have the same problems and limitations.

In reality they are the same product. Hundreds dashcam brands & models in reality are produced by 2 or 3 Chinese companies. They have different casings with different logos. And small changes in firmware/mobile apps. But inside boards with chips are the same.

In (Chinese) cctv world in last 5 years we did small upgrade in image sensors & much bigger upgrade in Image Signal Processor technology.
In (Chinese) dashcam world in last 5 years they did bigger upgrade in image sensors (Sony Starves 2) & almost no upgrade in Image Signal Processor technology.

Totally reversed situations..
Almost the entire dashcam market category is at a standstill due to the lack of interest from SOC's manufacturers in its further development (too small market).

Almost all (Chinese) CCTV market is stagnated because Chinese image sensors have little development and both HIK & Dahua can't / don't want to use western technology (Sony sensors)..

All progress we have from 2019 (first 5442 with 1/1.8" sensor) up to 2024 is mostly by SOC / ISP upgrades (3 gen StartLight+ -> 4 gen Full Color -> 5/AI gen Deep Light of HiSilicon ISP technology - used both by Dahua / HIK / Uniview)..

ps. all HiSilicon development of SOC's for CCTV market is based on HiSilicon development of premium chips for Chinese mobiles.

SOCs for mobile phones are currently pushing the entire market of design & production of integrated chips. It is only because the same company (HiSilicon) also produces SOCs for the CCTV market (Dahua/HIK are using HiSilicon chips) that we have relatively fast / measurable progress here.

So in 2-3 next years we will see another VI gen ISP technology from HiSilicon in HIK/Dahua product - which will copy latest ISP tech from Chinese mobiles.. I don't count on any significant progress in image sensors used by HIK/Dahua in next 2-3 years..