Advice needed on cameras / equipment.

[AuburnCW]

Hey guys,

I've been reading the forum a while, trying to gather up as much knowledge as I can around security cameras, BI, and all the computer hardware needed for this. My existing lorex NVR took a crap on me a month or so ago and since then I've already had 2 break in attempts (guy drying to drill locks on two separate nights), and now it's turned into more of an emergency to have some security.

My car wash is in a pretty rough neighborhood and there has been a lot of crime... mostly vandalism / dumping, but also had a shooting in the middle of the night a few years back. I guess I'm just trying to increase the number of people that I am able to catch, and maybe stop them faster by being able to get the police involved before the guy is done trashing a $5000 machine. My insurance company hates me.

I'm not making Breaking Bad type money here so this is why I need help for the DIY type of approach.

I've attached some photos of the place. I drew some red arrows at things that have either been broken into or attempted to be broken into, that I'd like to watch, along with an aerial with some more info on problem areas and my idea of where I should maybe point some LPRs.

I want to build a machine that can handle 16 cameras, I'll probably need to buy the cameras slowly over time as the cash rolls in.

Questions:
1. What CPU should I get for a 16 cameras system? Based on my reading here I think it should be a pretty top of the line intel like an i9-10850?
2. What should I buy for a switch that can power the cameras?
3. My current cameras are mounted too high and the tops of peoples heads don't lead to arrests. Mounting them lower will probably cause them to get hit by more overspray from people washing or direct spray if the guys a jerk. Would you recommend turret style cameras for that? Anyone have a model number?
4. How important is it for me to run conduit to the cameras, looking at the nice pretty installs people have here it seems most of them do it with junction boxes / conduit. I'm sort of thinking I'm only going to have time to run the wire, use a drip loop. Try to make a water tight connection between the camera / cable. I'm cool with running a new cat6 cable every few years.
5. From the building to the two entrances it's roughly 100', does anyone have a LPR they recommend?

Thanks everyone!

 

[SouthernYankee]

Looks like a standard car wash.
If you are running Blue iris you need a intel i7-6700 or greater. You do not need am I9 for only 16 cameras. Look at get a standard case HP elitedesk or a standard business computer off of ebay. Add an SSD card for the c drive and at least an 8 TB WD purple drive.

Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris

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ipcamtalk.com

I would run conduit for the ethernet cables.
I have no idea how to mount the cameras low enough so they do not get destroyed.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Rule number one - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule number two - You never have enough cameras.

I'll second what SY has said and supply some more information. I'm running a dozen cameras on an i7-6700K and utilization is down in the 5% range. Using substreams makes it pretty easy t assemble a large system, record 24/7, and not overload the CPU. Playing back multiple streams at high rates will load any system though.

If it were me, I'd be using rigid conduit for all the cabling and would look into hardened enclosures for the cameras as well, especially those that will be inside watching the change machine and such. You would still be pretty good facial shots as they destroy a camera, and even a hardened enclosure can be destroyed, but it would reduce the likelihood that might happen. The interior cameras will need to be fairly low, say six feet, to get good identification video which makes them much more vulnerable.

 

[AuburnCW]

I have no idea how to mount the cameras low enough so they do not get destroyed.

I was debating on trying some of those vandal proof dome cameras? Anyone have opinions on these? I'm guessing water could linger around on it but maybe some rainx or something every once in a while could help?

For the most part it seems like the criminals just ignore the cameras exist. I've only had one bullet camera attacked in the last 6 years.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Domes aren't actually any more vandal proof than a turret or a bullet. A hammer or baseball bat will take the out just as easily. Domes have the problem of reflections and dirt, dust, water, accumulating on the dome, too. Less of that with bullets or turrets, especially the reflections.

 

[Old Timer]

Is there a way to place cameras inside the machines? Maybe add a piece of "bullet proof" glass to protect them?
that way they walk up and you get a great shot of their face as they try to break in. Look into ATM machines and
see how they do it, might give you some good ideas. Then a second camera higher to show the action at the same time.
Most car washes have plenty of light to run a good camera at color inside the stall at night.
I would put the cables in conduit, probably ridged. Otherwise they will tear them up. You probably make daily trips
to pick up money and clean up trash. At the same time you could wipe the glass clean.

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A lot of ATM cameras are USB, so you would have to add a Raspberry Pi, etc to get it to IP .
A wide dynamic camera would be good.

 

[sebastiantombs]

That's a composite, coaxial, camera OT.

 

[Old Timer]

That's a composite, coaxial, camera OT.

I did not find any IP cameras like the ATM uses. I don't know if they make them, or if they all just plug into a
PC type mother board inside so use video or the USB. I do know the casinos have pin hole cameras they use in their
machines that are IP, and are pretty well lost in the front display. Still shows the person very well, but expensive.

 

[looney2ns]

Use the rigid conduit. Otherwise it's too easy to just cut the cables by the perps, or just yank them down.
Right now is a good time to be selling Real-estate. Just saying.
For LPR cams see here: LPR | IP Cam Talk
This is a great all around camera for most situations.
Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua) | IP Cam Talk
With a little ingenuity, you can make these cams hidden cams in your machines.
Three screws, and they come apart.

 

[AuburnCW]

Is there a way to place cameras inside the machines? Maybe add a piece of "bullet proof" glass to protect them?

The paystation for the automatic car wash has an unused cat5 cable ran to it, also power outlets inside the box. I could cut the door or drill a hole for a camera on that one. The change machine would also be pretty easy to retrofit a camera into if you guys think that is a good idea since it's accessible from inside the building.

The "meter boxes" in the self service bays where you insert your money just have 24v power ran to them, I'd imagine I could probably do something there with a raspberry pi but I don't have much experience in that area. I haven't had too many issues with those since I stopped accepting dollar bills on the door for it, as the guys with crowbars got a little out of control. But every once in a while we get a goof ball who still attacks it or thinks spraying high pressure water down the quarter slot is going to give him a free wash.

Vending machine I moved to credit card only, that machine has been totaled twice. People attack it even with the cage around it. Almost no one uses credit cards in this area so it's a shame.. I've lost a good income stream there and I guess it probably isn't worth it for me to try to add cash acceptance back to it as the cameras probably won't stop a guy from doing serious damage.

Right now is a good time to be selling Real-estate. Just saying.

Haha, I just invested a bunch of money into bringing this place into modern times last year. I need to survive a couple more years before it would make sense for me to sell.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I think I saw @EMPIRETECANDY post a pinhole/nanny cam that was IP, but could be wrong. Like looney2nes mentioned, most of the IP cameras we use do come apart, but the problem then becomes the relatively large hole for the lens.

A dodge for the stuff you want to watch that's outside might be to use cameras located further away and use varifocals to zoom in to get good closeup shots. That would offer some additional protection by keeping the cameras a little more out of sight.

The LPR cameras would also need to be well hidden because for them to work they need to be pretty low to the ground, but again if you use enough zoom you can mount them higher and further back. Balancing the zoom, focus and shutter speed would be a real finicky operation though to get good captures. There' s a whole thread area here just for LPR since it's really more of an art .

LPR

Licence Plate Reader cameras

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Old Timer]

The paystation for the automatic car wash has an unused cat5 cable ran to it, also power outlets inside the box. I could cut the door or drill a hole for a camera on that one. The change machine would also be pretty easy to retrofit a camera into if you guys think that is a good idea since it's accessible from inside the building.

The "meter boxes" in the self service bays where you insert your money just have 24v power ran to them, I'd imagine I could probably do something there with a raspberry pi but I don't have much experience in that area. I haven't had too many issues with those since I stopped accepting dollar bills on the door for it, as the guys with crowbars got a little out of control. But every once in a while we get a goof ball who still attacks it or thinks spraying high pressure water down the quarter slot is going to give him a free wash.

Vending machine I moved to credit card only, that machine has been totaled twice. People attack it even with the cage around it. Almost no one uses credit cards in this area so it's a shame.. I've lost a good income stream there and I guess it probably isn't worth it for me to try to add cash acceptance back to it as the cameras probably won't stop a guy from doing serious damage.



Haha, I just invested a bunch of money into bringing this place into modern times last year. I need to survive a couple more years before it would make sense for me to sell.

I would look into cameras first and see what attachment they have available, and see what would work best. The pin hole are the easiest to hide.

The meter boxes could use a POE camera powered by the ethernet cable, or a converter to convert the 24v ac to 12v dc to run the camera.

Vending machine, you could block off a selection and place a camera in that way. If its owned by someone else, and you just get revenue from it,
you don't have to worry about the maintenance. I have seen a large bar setup that went around the machine to allow a secondary lock to be put on.

LPR cameras can be put up higher if they are back a ways. That might allow you to put them at the maintenance room, and zoom into the driveways.
If they are using the escape route out back, I would put some poles up or at least something to damage the vehicle so they will not want to go that way.

With an internet connection you can set it up to watch from a remote site 24/7 and call the cops when you see suspect people. Some police departments will do this, and some will make you hire a rent a cop to do it. Might run them off if they know you are watching?

 

[looney2ns]

Do you have a VERY loud alarm in the maintance room?

 

[Old Timer]

Do you have a VERY loud alarm in the maintance room?

Great idea, loud enough to make them leave.
Tamper switch on the meter boxes?
Hoodie and mask won't cover the ears.

 

[looney2ns]

With a good alarm, you can add all sorts of sensors to it. Vibration, glass break, magnetic contact for door opening, moisture sensor's for spraying the quarter slots, etc.
Then mount very loud sirens in each bay, and outside so any tampering sets them off. Make their ears bleed.
Strobes and or flashing lights can help too.
Check your local codes concerning alarms.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Strobes flashing at around 10 flashes per second have been known to induce seizures. Just saying