Advice on POE Switches
- Thread starter bwhid
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The "-L" at the end indicates that this has the LAN base feature set. That doesn't mean that the software license is LAN base. If you are lucky, it may come with the IP services feature set (the previous owner would have to have upgraded the license). This is a $4000 upgrade license and will get you a ton more features. However, most home users will be fine with the LAN base license.
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You can definitely find deals on used Cisco gear on Ebay. Most companies don't use them any more because they are no longer supported. Larger enterprises only use equipment that they can get a support contract. If a switch ever fails, Cisco ships them a new one overnight. Once Cisco comes out with a new version, the old ones eventually become End-of-Life. This applies to all vendors including Cisco, Arista, Juniper, Dell/Force10, etc. No major corporation will buy an End-of-Life enterprise switch. Therefore you see a flood in the secondary market for used enterprise equipment.
Those are fantastic switches and will run forever, even in poor conditions. They have more than enough PoE budget for your application, even with the smaller power supplies. The PoE budget varies weather you use the 350W, 715W, or 1100W versions. You won't get an 800W PoE budget without the 1100W power supply, though.
When you purchase your fiber, make sure you get direct-burial rated cable. The riser-rated stuff won't last well outdoors. Depending on your distances, you'll need to be careful which fiber you buy as well. If your buildings are very close, you can get away with 50/125 multimode (OM3 or OM4), but your best bet is to use 9/125 singlemode. If your distances are very short, you can use "SR" SPF optics with the OM3 or OM4, but singlemode will always require "LR" optics. Those can cost more, but 10Gb optics have gotten so cheap anymore that it probably doesn't matter.
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Yep, I would probably buy the same model if my current switch died today. It's a lot of bang for your buck.
Thanks for the info! The total length of the longer runs will be about 120 meters, and 80 meters. Which fiber would you recommend?
Also, I will run conduit between the buildings and the rest of the cables will be in the drop ceiling. Thanks
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That a look here. Cisco Transceiver Modules - Cisco 10GBASE SFP+ Modules Data Sheet
OM4 multi-mode would work. This would be for SR, SR-X, or SR-S optics. Check to see if the SFP+ module you pick is compatible with switch you have.
OK, I'll take a look and make sure the cable and transceiver are compatible. Thanks for the help. It's been invaluable!
I'm waiting for a relative to set up the 3 Cisco switches. Can I add the Cisco 3702i wireless access point networked to these switches? Do I need a wireless controller or will these switches work as the controller.
Thanks for all your help. I'm learning every day!
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The WAP 3702i can work in autonomous mode or controller mode. Your switch can definitely power the WAP 3702i. Your switch will not be performing the controller function. Either you would run your 3702i in autonomous mode, or you can add a controller to your network (either VM or something like a WLC2504). Keep in mind that the controller will probably cost more than your switches.
The switches that can perform the controller function would be something like a 3650 or 3850. I use that switch at home but I still don't use the controller function. I run my 3702i in autonomous mode.
If it were me, I would run singlemode (9/125, OS2, direct burial). You can get away with multimode (OM3 or OM4), but you have to be careful with your distances and speeds to make sure you don't exceed the limits. Singlemode is as close to future-proof as connectivity gets right now, and it's a small increase in cost over multimode.
Whichever you go with, you will either need to buy pre-terminated cables (I recommend LC terminations) or have a contractor terminate bare fiber for you. The latter is much more expensive, though it is the best solution.
If you go with singlemode, you need to use LR optics. Those Cisco switches do not lock themselves to Cisco-branded optics, but you can find some great deals on Cisco-branded, used, 10G SFP+ modules on eBay.
If you go with multimode, use OM3 or OM4 (50/125). Do not consider OM1 or OM2 (62.5/125), even if you can find it. Thoes are old standards and you will run into problems with 10G speeds at any outdoor distance. Multimode connections use SR optics, which are a little cheaper than LR, but when you are talking about $20 vs $40, it's not a big difference in your deployment.
If your relative is well-versed with Cisco, you can pick up a 5508 WLC (wireless LAN controller) for a little over $100 and run Cisco WAPs in lightweight mode (including the 3702i), and the controller will handle management of the access points. It's a great solution for enterprise deployments, and those controllers are old now, so they are very cheap. They work perfectly with an older access point, like the 3702i or 3802i, which are very capable and quite inexpensive now.
All of those components, the 3560X switches, 5508 WLC, and 3702/3802 access points are extremely reliable. I have had multiple of each in full production for many years. They were only replaced when newer hardware came out that required upgrades for compatibility.
Thank you very much for all of this info. It is extremely helpful. Fiber optic is totally new to me, but as I am learning the best all round long term solution.
I purchased the 3702 on Ebay for a great price.
Which is faster single mode or multimode OM4?
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Speed of light will be the same so latency should be the same. In terms of throughput, the link I posted earlier are all 10G SFP+ so they will all do 10G. Single mode will allow for more distance. If you ever plan to do 100G, single mode will give you that distance buffer. You probably will be close to the threshold for 100G at 120meters using multimode.
It's just capability. As speeds increase, the distance (on multimode) decreases. OM4 is the current standard for high-speed short-range fiber. It is usually used within a building, as opposed to between them.
As long as the distances are short enough, though, you can use what you like.
I like singlemode for outside connections because it's as future-proof as we can be right now. The labor to install singlemode is the same as multimode, and you'll never (well, as far as we know now) have to pull it out of the ground. I have spend a lot of years fixing short-sighted installs where I work, where someone thought building the outside fiber plant at our site with OM2 was a good idea. Now we have major costs in building around it because the existing fiber just can't move the data we need moved.
This is all a lot higher level stuff than what you're doing, I suspect. I am always looking at the 25+ year install, so I probably preach a bigger solution than what a small operation requires. The principles still apply, though.
Thank you for that info. From what I understand, I need three runs to enable redundancy. If I use 6 strand wire, can I use a connector in the center location to connect the wires from Bldg3 to Bldg1, and in that way only run 2 wires? Will I lose a lot of speed if I use a connector instead of one long run? The total distance would be 435 feet.
Bldg3 ==> 180 feet (10 feet outside) ==> Bldg2 255 feet (30 feet outside) ==> Bldg3
I'm a stone cold newbie when it comes to fiber, so I may be way off base. I thought multimode was faster than single mode and OM4 would allow for greater speed if faster switches were put in later? I am using 3 Cisco switches with 10G fiber uplinks so I only need 10G for now. Singlemode looks to be cheaper for the fiber and the transceivers for the Cisco switches are only slightly more expensive if I buy them used. I understand Singlemode works for longer distances, but should I go with it here? (Again I'm just trying to understand, I want the best solution for now and long term. When someone comes after me, I want them to say we did it right!) So go with Singlemode or multimode?
Also, and I'm probably asking a very dumb question (or even another dumb question) - but here it is. Is it all worth considering buying bulk fiber and terminating the ends ourselves?
I am volunteering my work on this job and working on a tight budget, so I cannot that you enough for your knowledge and time. I am reading on different sites, but it's hard to get information on specific situations.
I am not understanding your topology and your example shows 2x building #3's. Can you clarify that?
If you have 3 buildings, are putting a switch in each building, and just need them all to be interconnected, you just need 2 fiber runs. 1 switch will be connected to the other 2.
For example: Building #1 --------> Building #2 --------> Building #3
Again, if it were me, I would use singlemode. There is no speed or (practical) distance limit on singlemode.
If you have experience with terminating fiber, by all means do it yourself. You can do a nicer job like that. If you don't, you're not going to like your results. Either sub that job out or buy pre-terminated.
Small operations don't usually do fiber because of the cost associated with installing it. Nothing beats it for a number of reasons, but it isn't cheap. Whatever you do, DO NOT install copper between the buildings.
If you have 3 buildings, are putting a switch in each building, and just need them all to be interconnected, you just need 2 fiber runs. 1 switch will be connected to the other 2.
For example: Building #1 --------> Building #2 --------> Building #3
Again, if it were me, I would use singlemode. There is no speed or (practical) distance limit on singlemode.
If you have experience with terminating fiber, by all means do it yourself. You can do a nicer job like that. If you don't, you're not going to like your results. Either sub that job out or buy pre-terminated.
Small operations don't usually do fiber because of the cost associated with installing it. Nothing beats it for a number of reasons, but it isn't cheap. Whatever you do, DO NOT install copper between the buildings.