Annke - I've had enough

[Neighbourhood Watch]

Hi guys,

Just a quick rant here, in the hope no one is conned like I was, but I guess you know all that much better than me. So, I spent the whole week-end tinkering with my Annke cameras. To sum up: Annke and its whole environment, the Hik-Connect web-based cloud, the web-based individual dashboard of each camera are incredibly crappy... I can't believe how they can put this on the market. Basic features are not possible. I can't upload my videos to the FTP server (only images!). There is a window that allows to download videos from the SD card, but there's no option to delete useless videos. Only way to delete the videos is to remotely format the SD card (granted there's an "overwrite" feature to overwrite the oldest videos when the SD card is full as the camera keeps recording). Dynamic DNS doesn't work as expected, as you aren't allowed to put a dot in your domain name! You need to be in the same LAN as your cameras to set up your cameras in your mobile app, otherwise the import returns an error message. If you import your cameras in your mobile app using the host you use in your dynamic DNS (e.g. myhome.dyndns.org), you stop receiving notifications when an event occurs. Setting up the cameras in the web-based Hik-Connect interface is incredibly complicated. Same goes with the camera web-based dashboard, with many meaningless labels, and phrases that you have no clue what the folks were meaning... The documentation is either too short (the doc supplied with the cameras), outdated with old screenshots that don't match the new interfaces, or spread out across several web sites (lots of googling involved). The cameras heat up significantly, I haven't plugged the PoE Ethernet switch to my wattmeter, but given the heat, I would guess it consumes several tens of watts (more than my broadband Internet router) and I wonder how engineers from competitors manage to design IP cameras that work from a simple solar panel that only needs 3h of sunshine per day, but they do (Annke cameras would need a whole lot more). The English translation is terrible...My Dad who doesn't speak any of the listed languages of the web-based interface won't be able to use it, so it's a no-brainer. The video tampering option may be set to lowest sensitivity, it triggers by itself for no reason. I had to disable it. And why does it provide a "Draw area"? Again, I don't understand the rationale... Sometimes my cameras are offline on the mobile app, sometimes they come back online for no reason. My cameras are managed by the Hik-Connect server, but on the Hik-Connect dashboard, my cameras are not listed! (it reads "No devices") In Hik-Connect, there is a bunch of sections and options that I have no clue what they're used for. I enabled SSH but when accessing the camera using SSH to retrieve the videos on the SD card, I wasn't able to use the most basic Linux commands such as pwd, ls, cd, cp, etc... Understanding the rationale, the way it works, the way the interface is organized is most of the time challenging. I think I've spent enough time with these cameras. I'm considering reselling them. Now, I wonder if other well-known brands are that bad. Obviously, I want to avoid its parent company Hik Vision and sister companies, but what about these brands: Reolink, Tapo, Vigi, Eufy or EZViz? (I would like remote FTP capability, top-notch mobile app, advanced person/car detection, PoE, no battery, no solar panel, 2K or better, and interfaces in proper languages). To sum up, I hope you don't buy this type of cheap cameras like I did.

 

[wittaj]

You have to remember that we are not the Dahua and Hikvision intended audience - it is the installers hoping you will subscribe to their monthly fees to "manage" the system.

The better camera manufacturers figure people will use another platform for their VMS needs so they don't invest a lot in their app whereas the consumer grade cameras know the app experience will be what drives sales and they invest in the app.

The consumer grade companies invest more in their app experience because that is what is driving their sales are a consumer that wants the ease/simplicity/simple setup and app more so than camera quality.

Nothing in this arena is true plug-n-play if quality and able to IDENTIFY is important.

All cameras need to be dialed in to the field of view. Even the best cameras left on default will result in motion blur and ghosting at night. It is the same process for the dialing in the camera regardless of the VMS (NVR) system used.

If you want true plug-n-play simplicity and do not care about nighttime motion quality, then go with one of the consumer brands - Ring, Arlo, Reolink, Nest, Blink, etc. They are true plug-n-play because those cameras all run on default/auto settings with very little, to no ability to change camera parameters.

Simply download their app and scan the camera QR code and you are up and running, with a better app experience also.

But their plug-n-play simplicity comes at a cost of nighttime performance and ability to customize stuff, but obviously many do not seem to care about that as those systems are popular and those consumer grade systems are a perfect fit for those that want simplicity and not having to learn how to use an NVR.

We are just fortunate to be able to get our hands on the better stuff. And a forum like this to help us when stuck.

Different end user, different expectations.

 

[Neighbourhood Watch]

I understand. Thanks. Yes, I agree with you... I prefer simplicity, I'm a consumer user, the cameras are for the place around where I live... I'll look into the brands you mentioned. Thanks again.

 

[wittaj]

I have no idea if you took the time to dial the camera in to your field of view to eliminate motion blur and ghosting or if you were running on default/auto settings because that camera has the ability to produce a better image than consumer brands, but here is a thread where we post the type of quality that comes from the consumer based brands.

For some people this is acceptable for their use case or they accept it because of the simplicity, but for some it is not, so take a look at the various captures and brands that captured it and see if any of them are suitable for your needs:

the-typical-picture-of-a-perp-on-nextdoor-type-apps-with-consumer-grade-cameras-like-ring-nest-arlo-canary-wyze-etc.

 

[Neighbourhood Watch]

I let the default settings for image quality, as the purpose is only to capture videos of prowlers at night, and I was satisfied with the image quality.
Colors, sharpness are pretty good, and are good enough for me, as long as I can clearly read license plates.

 

[wittaj]

Sorry for being a pest, but we want to make sure you get what you are hoping to get.

Were you satisfied with the static image or of images in motion?

There is a big difference.

Any camera can produce a nice bright static image at night with no motion.

Keep in mind recognizing you or your family on the camera at night is a lot different than being able to provide an image to IDENTIFY a prowler at night.

And this camera was capturing plates at night on default settings?

Can you post some representative videos at night of a person or vehicle in motion and one showing capturing of plates?

 

[Neighbourhood Watch]

For the record, I was testing the cameras indoor, I wanted to make sure everything was OK, everything was working as expected, the videos were recorded properly, etc... Prior to drilling holes and fitting the cameras where I had intended to... So the videos and images were not like in real life (objects were very close, opposite to a remote car coming by)...
That said, yes, the images and videos were both satisfactory.
No opportunity at this point to capture a car nor a license plate...
I'll give it a second thought and explain all these issues I've run through to my dad, who is not tech savvy at all (he'll have to learn how to use an Android smartphone), and see if he can use the Hik-Connect app in a language he won't understand a single word. But there are icons to make it less difficult, and the tasks you do on a daily basis are always the same with these apps, so who knows... The product is definitely not what I expected, but I'm afraid of buying another brand of camera to end up with other difficulties setting it up and using it.

 

[wittaj]

OK, inside under ideal conditions is WAY different than outside with very little light.

Inside the infrared and white light bounces all off the walls and helps a lot.

Outside will be a completely different story.

Would be lucky to get IDENTIFY much past 10-12 feet.

This is a cheap camera with a 1/3" sensor designed for 720P - it will be absolutely HORRIBLE at night.

And will NEVER read a plate unless the vehicle is not moving and within a few feet of the camera.

You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

See the LPR subforum for more details.

 

[Neighbourhood Watch]

Wow... Interesting... I didn't expect there was so much interest in reading license plates. I've had the same issues with dashcams in my car. License plates were always unreadable. I have bookmarked the forum subsection on LPR. I'll take some time to go through the posts. Thank you.

 

[Flintstone61]

Here is what a Blue iris setup looks like on a windows PC.
100% satisfaction rating by me a former frustrated consumer level DVR NVR user.
easy to set up? not exactly, tunability? yes.

 

[Flintstone61]

Of course the complexity of setting up consumer level products is less hassle, the tunability and speed and mobile Apps can range from acceptable to ..." somebody Must Die"
So i stumbled on this site, and eventually came around to their way of thinking after limping along on a Costco piece of shit.

 

[Photon Farmer]

For the record, I was testing the cameras indoor

You have taken some test pictures inside.
You want to use cameras outside so test cameras outside at night.
Pay attention to the moving stuff, walls and bushes will probably still be there tomorrow, you can take great pictures of them then with your phone.
I have tested by placing cameras on chairs, cardboard, and even clamped cameras to the side of buildings.

I learned if you want a clear picture when daylight is gone you need a large enough sensor to collect light needed for each frame before an object can move and become blurred.
If you have a smaller sensor more time is needed per fame to collect light allowing car, person, or whatever moving object to be in more than one position in picture.
Also remember that as you divide a sensor into more megapixels each pixel is now smaller.
so...
Increase the time for each fame and risk blurred motion.
or
Increase the size of sensor to increase pixel size reducing time needed for each frame.

Short Version:
Clear motion in lowlight have a large enough sensor to support your megapixels.


Pictures below are a very apples to oranges comparison.
Both cameras are hikvision, one purchased before and one after finding this website.
Even with a good brand, it is possible to get motion blurred pictures.
When the police came, guess which picture they wanted.

Left side has been trimmed off each picture.






oh...
1) License plates at night do require their own camera. <-- yet sometimes get great daytime identify pictures
2) Chase sensor size first, then megapixels. <-- yea not as fun - but reality
3) Field of view (lens magnification) would be a good next subject.
4) Welcome

 

[Neighbourhood Watch]

Thanks for your feedback and tips

 

[wittaj]

Without knowing what your goals of the camera is, this thread is used as the go to for the new person here outlining the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value/best bang for the buck in terms of price and performance day and night. It might be a 2MP camera in some instances.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

And coupled with that thread is this great thread which will show why all of the same 2.8 or 3.6mm cameras is the wrong choice:

i-want-2-8mm-cameras-everywhere-to-see-everything-this-is-why-you-need-specific-fovs-with-purposeful-focal-lengths.70053/

We would encourage you to look at those threads in detail.

It will probably raise more questions than answers LOL.

And oh yeah, I didn't address your these cameras are hot comment earlier. Yes they do run hot, it is like a 10watt mini-computer without cooling. We have seen people record temps exceeding 140degrees with these types of cameras. They do get hot!

 

[Neighbourhood Watch]

Thank you. OK, so this temperature is to be expected.

 

[wittaj]

Thank you. OK, so this temperature is to be expected.

Yes, it is no different than a 10 watt lightbulb is gonna get hot. Especially at night with the white light or infrared going.

Some cameras are better than others at dissipating heat, but they will get warm.

Why I always laugh when someone comes here from a cold climate and asks if the cameras will be ok - um yes LOL.