Any NVR with vehicle/human detection under $300?

[dasdasdas]

I tried the Hikvision on amazon, which sucks with only one channel with human/vehicle detection.
Then got the deal of the century with human/vehicle detection on 10 channels, only 80 bucks... except that it does none of that off course, with the typically misleading Amazon chinesium info sheet.
All the ones I queried on Amazon do detection on their cameras and don't support any ONVIF trigger.
So I was wondering if there is any decent NVR on Ali express or Taobao (aka can't return) that does that good stuff on more than 1 channel? And for less then $300?

 

[wittaj]

In an NVR - nope.

Just like the toy PTZs you were unhappy with, the same will happen with cheap NVRs.

AI is heavy processing and even the expensive ones will throttle capacity the more AI that is used.

Get cameras that have AI built in is one way to get a cheaper NVR.

But to get under $300 you would need to go with a used PC like say an i5-8500 and Blue Iris.

 

[wittaj]

As an example, here is a $1,200 NVR that can do 32 channels

But...AI by NVR is limited to 8 channels

And using the NVR AI cuts the bandwidth capacity in half.

 

[Mark_M]

In an NVR - nope.

Get cameras that have AI built in is one way to get a cheaper NVR.
But to get under $300 you would need to go with a used PC like say an i5-8500 and Blue Iris.

An NVR doing the AI processing can be a little finicky at times too.
I got a Dahua NVR5216-16P-I, cost about $1200.

One of my cameras has have poor quality compression and the NVR's AI cannot always pickup a person/vehicle on it.
Old Dahua cameras without AI and using the NVR's AI works well since the encoding/decoding is a perfect match.


Regardless of AI on the NVR, spend more than $300 on it...
The NVR is the heart of a system. You need to buy a good quality unit.

 

[dasdasdas]

Do you guys know how these NVR delegate AI detection to cameras? in other word, how is the detection transmitted to the NVR.. All my cameras except this old 410 have the appropriate detection. I could do without an NVR and check each camera's local recording but meh..

 

[wittaj]

To ensure full compatibility, it is best to match brand of NVR and cameras.

While ONVIF is supposed to make it easier to mix/match, the truth of the answer is depends.

Even though they may both be ONVIF compatible, that simply means it will pull in the video stream.

Advanced features like AI may not be compatible and may not work other than showing as a triggered event.

Even as a standard, there is no "standard" that every manufacturer follows.

Audio rarely follows a standard. Things like AI triggers, heat mapping, people counting, etc. rarely follow a standard.

In reality, ONVIF is a paid designation, so a camera can set up their protocol however they want, but if they belong to ONVIF, they can slap ONVIF on their stuff for marketing purposes. Some manufacturers are better than others at providing a standard that can be used with other devices.

https://www.onvif.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/onvif-brand-standards-20220315.pdf

 

[dasdasdas]

Advanced features like AI may not be compatible and may not work other than showing as a triggered event.

What NVR can pull that? No AI needed.

 

[wittaj]

What NVR can pull that? No AI needed.

My comment means that just because a camera may have AI capabilities, an NVR from a different brand may not register it as a person or vehicle but simply a motion trigger - say you are using a Reolink camera into a Dahua NVR, the Dahua NVR may not recognize and code it as an AI person or vehicle and will simply show it as a triggered event, thus you can't search by person or vehicle as everything will just be a trigger.

To ensure that AI from the camera will be recognized as an AI event in the NVR that you can then search by type of AI, then it is best to match brand of camera with brand of NVR. Or go with Blue Iris and a PC.

 

[dasdasdas]

One of my cameras has have poor quality compression and the NVR's AI cannot always pickup a person/vehicle on it.

So that's why they all do AI on the cameras. Makes sense.
The AI detection chip that connects to the sensor are probably cheap too
my NVR chinese spec sheet has no AI

Hangzhou Xiongmai Technology Co.,LTD.-16ch 4K POE Extension H.265 NVR Board

www.xiongmaitech.com

They sell sensor detectors Hangzhou Xiongmai Technology Co.,LTD.-PRODUCTS

 

[dasdasdas]

My comment means that just because a camera may have AI capabilities, an NVR from a different brand may not register it as a person or vehicle but simply a motion trigger - say you are using a Reolink camera into a Dahua NVR, the Dahua NVR may not recognize and code it as an AI person or vehicle and will simply show it as a triggered event, thus you can't search by person or vehicle as everything will just be a trigger.

What i'm saying is I don't care to record what's triggered the event, as long as it is not just motion. so my question was to be understood as "what NVR can pull such trigger info" because this cheap-o sure isn't it. Or maybe the equally cheapo cam is not sending the good stuff.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

you need the cameras support the human and vehicles detection, at dahua we called SMD. Most NVR support SMD, but can't make the SMD for All normal cameras

 

[dasdasdas]

you need the cameras support the human and vehicles detection, at dahua we called SMD. Most NVR support SMD, but can't make the SMD for All normal cameras

Good to know the linguo, I thought SMD was tripwires.
So like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BXXB6MCY/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

SMD also work for our cams which support SMD, not means for normal cameras NVR can make them into SMD.
Currently most cams we sell are support SMD.

 

[Mark_M]

Good to know the linguo, I thought SMD was tripwires.
So like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BXXB6MCY/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza?th=1

That NVR supports options of 'AI by recorder' functions.

Smart
AI by recorder: 2-channel face detection and recognition, 4-channel perimeter protection, and 8-channel SMD Plus. <- This is the maximum number of AI functions the NVR can process on it's own.
AI by camera: Face detection and recognition, perimeter protection, SMD Plus, metadata, ANPR,and people counting. <- This is if you use a camera with that particular built in AI function.

You can mix AI by recorder and camera.
E.g. 3 cameras use AI by recorder perimeter protection and all other cameras have AI perimeter protection built in.

When you enable even 1 AI by recorder function, the total bandwidth goes down. This is the amount of information being sent by all cameras to the recorder unit.
*A 4MP camera in H.265 uses ~8mb/s with little motion, this can go up a lot when there is motion.
AI disabled: 384 Mbps incoming, 384 Mbps recording and 384 Mbps outgoing .
AI enabled: 200 Mbps incoming, 200 Mbps recording and 200 Mbps outgoing.

 

[Iemand91]

I'm not smart enough to know enough about this, but why haven't Dahua/Hikvision used AI-hardware in their NVR's?
I mean; I don't use Blue Iris but I believe you can use the Coral TPU with that to significantly reduce CPU load. The same with Frigate and also Camect. (and probably more hardware/software solutions)
Is AI by NVR really done by the 'normal' CPU/SoC of the NVR, and not some separate chip?

 

[dasdasdas]

Or go with Blue Iris and a PC.

I tried that yesterday. The camera some times spits out motion = "true" in the XML string. I never saw something that sounds like smart detection.

 

[wittaj]

I tried that yesterday. The camera some times spits out motion = "true" in the XML string. I never saw something that sounds like smart detection.

You then need to add CodeProject to the BI mix if you want that additional capability to search based on person or car or toothbrush or bear or toilet LOL.

 

[dasdasdas]

You then need to add CodeProject to the BI mix if you want that additional capability to search based on person or car or toothbrush or bear or toilet LOL.

Ouroboros of ip cams haha I tried BI again after reading your post and ... god this thing is so sluggish I hope I'll find some clever hardware solution.

I'm not smart enough to know enough about this, but why haven't Dahua/Hikvision used AI-hardware in their NVR's?
I mean; I don't use Blue Iris but I believe you can use the Coral TPU with that to significantly reduce CPU load. The same with Frigate and also Camect. (and probably more hardware/software solutions)
Is AI by NVR really done by the 'normal' CPU/SoC of the NVR, and not some separate chip?

Good questions.
I only know that Chinese fabs run on ultra tight margins and are ace at optimizing hardware.
I'm amazed at how well this cheap NVR runs 10 streams fluidly when blueiris on a N5105 struggles with just 5, might be how lean embeded linux is compared to win10.

 

[wittaj]

Get a real computer LOL like a used i5-8500 for $150ish instead of a low budget toy N5105

 

[Mark_M]

Chinese fabs run on ultra tight margins and are ace at optimizing hardware.
I'm amazed at how well this cheap NVR runs 10 streams fluidly.

And the energy differences too.
My NVR with built in AI processing is less than 15w (without HDDs). Then a POE budget of 130w on the built in switch is great.
A 10TB Skyhawk drive is around 7w writing data.