Anyone use point to point wireless?

Rakin

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Just curious.

I am still new at ipcams and I am setting up my house as we speak. But once I get my small project going I was considering putting some cameras up at my dads house that is maybe 1000’ away. Is it possible to do it securely? If so is it also possible to run cameras and internet over the point to point from my house to his and keep the everything secure?


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bp2008

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Yes, it is absolutely possible if there is a clear, unobstructed line of sight between the radios. This is important. Assuming you can accomodate that, this is what you need: http://amzn.com/B07K351LGD
You'll also need a handful of extra network cables. One to go from the each radio to the poe injector, and from the poe injector to a network switch. These devices use passive 24 volt PoE which is different from standard PoE used by IP cameras.
 

Rakin

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Yes, it is absolutely possible if there is a clear, unobstructed line of sight between the radios. This is important. Assuming you can accomodate that, this is what you need: http://amzn.com/B07K351LGD
You'll also need a handful of extra network cables. One to go from the each radio to the poe injector, and from the poe injector to a network switch. These devices use passive 24 volt PoE which is different from standard PoE used by IP cameras.

So will it be secure? Would there be a way to not only run his cameras at his house on my bi pc at my house as well as share my internet with him without having to worry about his cameras gaining access to the internet?



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Dramus

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So will it be secure? Would there be a way to not only run his cameras at his house on my bi pc at my house as well as share my internet with him without having to worry about his cameras gaining access to the internet?
Security is an illusion. Network security doubly so. (With apologies to Douglas Adams.)

Yes, you can establish a "secure" point-to-point wireless connection, aka "backhaul", to a point 1,000 feet away if there are no obstructions between the two points. I would look to using something like Ubiquiti NanaBeam AC devices.

But "secure," where wireless is concerned, is as much a matter of how much someone would care to hack the link as the degree of technical challenge. The best security is physical isolation. An impossibility with wireless.

As for his cameras gaining access to the Internet: That would be prohibited by router configuration or using VLANs--same as it would for your own cameras. Or any other network device.
 

Rakin

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Security is an illusion. Network security doubly so. (With apologies to Douglas Adams.)

Yes, you can establish a "secure" point-to-point wireless connection, aka "backhaul", to a point 1,000 feet away if there are no obstructions between the two points. I would look to using something like Ubiquiti NanaBeam AC devices.

But "secure," where wireless is concerned, is as much a matter of how much someone would care to hack the link as the degree of technical challenge. The best security is physical isolation. An impossibility with wireless.

As for his cameras gaining access to the Internet: That would be prohibited by router configuration or using VLANs--same as it would for your own cameras. Or any other network device.

Ok that makes sense. Basically someone would have to be in the wireless path and have a desire and ability to hack in to it.


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Dramus

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Ok that makes sense. Basically someone would have to be in the wireless path and have a desire and ability to hack in to it.
It's not a laser :). Essentially all they have to be is "near enough."

For extra security you could put a router at each end and connect the two separate networks with a VPN. That would secure the link. The radios I pointed-out do not use the same 802.11<whatever> protocols traditional APs use. That doesn't mean they're not hackable, but it does mean the casual neighbourhood kid with a WiFi hacking kit and a laptop isn't likely to accomplish it.
 

bp2008

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This reminds me of when I was starting my first experiments with long range wifi, trying to link my dad's home to his office about 4 miles away so he could ditch his satellite internet plan. I tried to do it with a pair of linksys 802.11g access points wired through 1 watt amplifiers to some fairly large beam antennas. It didn't work worth shit. It was a very unreliable connection which, when it worked, was able to deliver a couple kbps and nothing more.

What was unexpected is that this antenna and amplifier setup allowed us to connect reliably to our neighbor's open wifi network. Their house was 2000 feet away but near the antenna's beam path and of course their access point was indoors somewhere. I couldn't believe it, but we were able to use their internet connection at full speed, which back in ~2008 was only 512 Kbps.

It wasn't long before I learned about Ubiquiti and got a pair of "Bullet 2" radios which could simply be connected to the existing antennas, and these delivered a stable 10+ Mbps in both directions over that 4 mile distance. We've upgraded this bridge several times since then and have had a reliable 100+ Mbps for several years now.
 

Rakin

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This reminds me of when I was starting my first experiments with long range wifi, trying to link my dad's home to his office about 4 miles away so he could ditch his satellite internet plan. I tried to do it with a pair of linksys 802.11g access points wired through 1 watt amplifiers to some fairly large beam antennas. It didn't work worth shit. It was a very unreliable connection which, when it worked, was able to deliver a couple kbps and nothing more.

What was unexpected is that this antenna and amplifier setup allowed us to connect reliably to our neighbor's open wifi network. Their house was 2000 feet away but near the antenna's beam path and of course their access point was indoors somewhere. I couldn't believe it, but we were able to use their internet connection at full speed, which back in ~2008 was only 512 Kbps.

It wasn't long before I learned about Ubiquiti and got a pair of "Bullet 2" radios which could simply be connected to the existing antennas, and these delivered a stable 10+ Mbps in both directions over that 4 mile distance. We've upgraded this bridge several times since then and have had a reliable 100+ Mbps for several years now.
That sounds pretty awesome at 4 miles


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bp2008

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4 miles is nothing now ;)

Getting the internet to my dad's mountain properties took 4 ubiquiti radio links: ~2500 feet using nanostation loco radios like I linked up above, and also 9 miles, 17.5 miles, and 19.5 miles using bigger models. Even for the longer links, the radios with antenna and poe injector included are hardly more than $100 each.
 

Jose R.

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So then why am I paying for iffy internet at my house when I can beam gigabit from my office 1.9 miles away?? :banghead: :D
 

TonyR

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So then why am I paying for iffy internet at my house when I can beam gigabit from my office 1.9 miles away?? :banghead: :D
Just don't tell anybody should you decide to do it.

Most, if not all, ISP's state in their service agreement that it can only be shared on the one property (all one parcel #) and that does NOT include adjacent property (different parcel #) even if owned by the same person.....has to be one piece of property.

Assuming you're not joking, I suggest you not do that at your office.....it could mean your job if the ISP gets wind of it and decides to disconnect from your office.
 

bp2008

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So then why am I paying for iffy internet at my house when I can beam gigabit from my office 1.9 miles away?? :banghead: :D
As long as you have a clear line of sight (no trees, no vehicles) it should work ;) A pair of these would do it: http://amzn.com/B06Y2JH7PV

This would also do it but may be overkill and double the price: http://amzn.com/B071DV94TJ

You can simulate a link using this tool: Link It will show you the elevation profile between two points and also show the "fresnel zone" which is an area around the radio beam where any obstacles may cause particularly-troublesome signal echoes. It is best to have the fresnel zone be clear as well.
 

Jose R.

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Good god this is dangerous information. Not going to do it, but surely fun looking into what it would take. I wasn't aware it was even possible nor so inexpensive. Good to know for future possible projects. Apparently here (legal issues aside) the limiting factor is height of the devices. I'm only on a second floor with no roof access at the office. If I was higher, it would totally be doable. The simulator is all green lights, heh.

Cool info, indeed. Thanks!
 

bp2008

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Ubiquiti does tend to exaggerate a bit with maximum range numbers.
 

Ford

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Just don't tell anybody should you decide to do it.

Most, if not all, ISP's state in their service agreement that it can only be shared on the one property (all one parcel #) and that does NOT include adjacent property (different parcel #) even if owned by the same person.....has to be one piece of property.

Assuming you're not joking, I suggest you not do that at your office.....it could mean your job if the ISP gets wind of it and decides to disconnect from your office.
Thank goodness we have the internet police to help us!

But you really need a separate account brought into the location that has good internet and transmit that account's access to your house. It might not be exactly in compliance with the text of some ISP agreements, I have never had a provider even bring it up as an issue as they are more than happy this configuration honours the spirit of the agreements.
 

TonyR

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Thank goodness we have the internet police to help us!
No need to be a smartass.

But you really need a separate account brought into the location that has good internet and transmit that account's access to your house. It might not be exactly in compliance with the text of some ISP agreements, I have never had a provider even bring it up as an issue as they are more than happy this configuration honours the spirit of the agreements.
Since you're in Canada and all 3 of the other posters I was addressing are in the U.S of A., don't assume that I don't know something about the topic.

The "spirit of the agreements"? Give me a break, Perry Mason.
 
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Ford

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No need to be a smartass.



Since you're in Canada and all 3 of the other posters I was addressing are in the U.S of A., don't assume that I don't know something about the topic.

The "spirit of the agreements"? Give me a break, Perry Mason.
90% of my clients are in U.S of A. and I spend 50% of my work time on site, don't assume that I don't know something about the topic.

But I do live in the enterprise world, so you may know more about dealing with home owners and their ISPs.
 
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