Banding from LED motion light

wittaj

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However, changing the frequency also removes a lot of parameter setting capability - for example, it eliminates the ability to set shutter speed any faster than a certain number as that is when this issue can occur. A few other parameters get jacked up too, but I do not recall which ones, maybe backlighting.

You should manually set the shutter speed (if on auto) or set it to a different number as the camera is operating the shutter at the same frequency as the LED. A tenth of a second could be difference between your image and great video.
 

bp2008

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I imagine your LED is powered directly by mains power (AC 120/240 volt) without any kind of capacitor to keep the power on steady, such that it is pulsing on and off at 100 or 120hz.

Honestly I'd consider getting a different LED light that does not pulse on and off. Any DC-powered LED should have a steady output unless it is intentionally designed to dim itself by PWM. That should not be common with floodlights since you typically want the highest possible brightness from such a light.
 

tibimakai

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Yes, it is powered from 110V AC. Maybe I should try a solar powered one?
I have just installed one, at the front of the garage, where I have two 5442 cameras and there I don't have this issue.
First, I will try to play with the settings.
Thanks
 

tibimakai

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I have just thought of something.
I have another camera pointing the other way, an old 4431R-Z, and that one has a perfect image, no banding.
And it is against the light beam as well.
The wedge cam is in front of this light(far side of the picture) pointing this way.
 

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wittaj

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That is why I am leaning towards a minor adjustment in your shutter speed and it should take care of it.

I had to do that with one of my cams because all the cars passing by with LED lights looked like they did not have their lights on LOL - which actually works out well to eliminate headlight glare LOL. But a minor tweak of the shutter speed and the headlight glare was back in its glory.
 

tibimakai

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The camera with banding was set to 1/500 and the other one, at 1/60.(this one does not have banding)
I need to play with it a bit more.
 

bp2008

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Hmm.

This is such complex stuff, the easiest solution is just to play with exposure time and look for a flicker compensation option somewhere (should have 50hz and 60hz and outdoor options).

To figure out exactly what is going on, lets think about this a little.

From the snapshot, it is clear to me that the camera has a rolling shutter.

We can assume the LED is being driven directly by AC mains power which operates at 60hz in the USA. The light would blink at double that frequency (120hz) because it would light up when the energy sine wave is at the positive peak and again at the negative peak.

We can graph the sine wave like this:

1638376802981.png

Conveniently, it looks like the "rolling shutter" takes close to 1 wavelength to finish, so it is around 1/60th of a second to fully read the sensor data. That is about 16 milliseconds.

If the exposure time is set to 1/500, then each pixel is exposed for 2 milliseconds. So it makes sense that the black bars would exist. It looks like the light is off about 40% of the time, which is ~6.4 milliseconds. But that is split across two off-periods, so each off-period would be around 3.2 milliseconds long, followed by light for about 4.8 milliseconds, then dark for 3.2 milliseconds, and so on.

So in theory if you got the exposure up to about 3.5 milliseconds (1/286 second) or longer, the fully black areas of the exposure should go away, but the image would still flicker horribly.

Around 7 millisecond exposure (1/142 second), the flicker should be greatly reduced. I suspect 1/120 exposure would be pretty safe to avoid the flicker.

I'm not 100% certain the flicker is caused by AC power. If the edges between light and dark were a little more fuzzy, I would be more confident. There remains the possibility that the light fixture is converting the AC power to DC and using relatively slow PWM dimming, such that the power graph would look more like this.

1638377236717.png

Anyway, I don't think that matters much. Based on my crude analysis I think 1/120 shutter speed should be slow enough to mostly eliminate the flicker.
 
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The banding is a result of the cheap way power supplies are implemented in most LED lights, the cheaper they are the worse they are. You will have to set the shutter slower than the frequency of your power (60Hz in NA, 50Hz some other places).

Another alternative you can just get a flicker-free (film grade) LED bulb if you want to keep the shutter at the higher speeds (100+) without the banding. Be prepared though, the price can be a real sticker shock. I ended up having to switch from high intensity paddle LED's to flicker-free lights from waveform lighting entirely because the banding issue was so bad for my outside cameras over 60Hz shutter (so I had loads of light but couldn't increase shutter without turning the video into stripped mess). You lose a little bit on LED efficiency, but the light quality shoots up dramatically.
 

tibimakai

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I will have to try 1/120, but most likely the 1/60 will be the fix.
Thanks bp2008 for all that explanation, it all makes sense. The light is a cheap one, one of those 3 adjustable types.
What is interesting that in front of the garage, the solar one($19) that I have just installed, does not create banding.
I will check the exposure of those two 5442s, but if I remember correctly, they should be at higher numbers as well.
 

bp2008

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A solar-powered light would be driven by DC power from a battery, so it would be a stable light output unless they include PWM (pulse width modulation) dimming for some reason.
 
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