Beware of Z-Wave 700 series controllers

bp2008

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Here's the tl;dr: There is a common problem with Z-Wave USB sticks that utilize 700-series chips, such as Aeotec Z-Stick 7. Basically, they communicate unreliably. You should not buy one. If you want a Z-Wave controller USB stick, get one with a 500 series chip.


My whole story:

I moved last year and wanted to build a new Z-wave network using Home Assistant, and the most recommended way to do that is with a USB Z-wave stick. So I bought the latest and greatest Aeotec Z-Stick 7.

The next 4 months, I had nothing but problems with Z-Wave switches and dimmers. They wouldn't add to the network reliably. They would take a long time to complete their "interviews" where the controller learns their capabilities. But most importantly, controlling them through Z-Wave was often slow, and sometimes would fail outright. I'd press a button to turn on a light, and it typically had a noticeable split-second delay. My prior Z-Wave experience however taught me this delay was absolutely not normal. I also programmed a z-wave button to trigger a Home Assistant automation that turns on 4 z-wave lights. Too often, nothing would happen. When it worked, the commands would be staggered and delayed, and often one or two of the lights would never get the command to turn on. While any Z-Wave command was awaiting a response, other Z-Wave commands got queued, definitely not sent concurrently as one might hope for a system with long command timeouts. I could look in the z-wave debugging log and see commands go out, not get a reply, and eventually time out, then the next command would be sent and the cycle would repeat. It was an awful system. And I didn't have some massive 60+ device network with lots of traffic. I only had about 10 z-wave devices on the whole network and packets were few and far between.

I couldn't tell for sure what the problem was at first. When I started, I had the system running on a Raspberry Pi 3b. So it was easy to move around and try the controller in different locations. No position really helped, an logically it shouldn't because Z-Wave builds a mesh network so each hardwired device is supposed to be capable of repeating packets to its neighbors. If the controller can reach one device reliably, and that device can reach others in a chain, then things should work.

I thought maybe this is an issue with the pi being such a slow device with little RAM. So I moved my Home Assistant configuration to a virtual machine on a fast server (thankfully, this is super easy with Home Assistant's backup and restore functions). I connected the Z-Stick 7 with an active USB extender and put it in the ceiling of my mechanical room. This change definitely sped up Home Assistant's web interface, but the communication issues were still there.

I also considered that maybe it was my new dimmer switches at fault; they could be faulty at relaying packets or something. But hell if I was going to replace all of those on a guess.

Fortunately, (or unfortunately?) lots of other people got pissed off about their bad Z-wave performance with these new sticks, and the github issue I linked above appeared. Evidently the Z-wave chip developers are aware of the issues and trying to fix them, but as of now there still isn't a viable fix (I've tried all the latest firmwares). So for now the workaround is to use an older 500-series USB stick. A Z-Wave-JS developer even went as far as to build a tool to convert a z-wave network backup from the newer format to the older format so that people could change to an older stick without rebuilding their network.

The popular Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5+ is getting harder to find, so I bought a Nortek HUSBZB-1 instead, thinking it would be equivalent. It is not. The HUSBZB-1 stick doesn't support the standard network backup and restore commands. Apparently this can be fixed with a firmware update, but to install the update you have to pop open the casing and short a specific pad on the PCB to ground at certain stages of the upgrade.

I decided that was a bit too risky, and with just a dozen or so devices on my network, I could just rebuild the network manually. This is done by running the exclusion and inclusion processes for each device, and then reconfiguring each of them as desired. The communication was MUCH more reliable this time. Devices added much faster. Their interviews completed much quicker. It still took me about 4 hours to get finished, but most of that time was reconfiguring the devices (setting minimum dim levels and stuff) and reconfiguring other software to deal with the changed device IDs. In that time I also discovered that the Zwavejs2Mqtt addon Release 6.5.1, as of a few weeks ago, was a bit bugged and unable to set certain device configuration properties, so I had to restore an older version of the addon from a backup before I could complete configuration.

Since rebuilding the network on the 500 series stick, performance has been good. I would not move back to the 700 series stick even if my 500-series stick had a compatible backup and restore mechanism (which it currently does not) because there would simply be no benefit.
 

sebastiantombs

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I just switched from X10 to HomeSeer with an Aeotec ZStick 5+. Knock on wood, so far it's been solid. Discovery works fast and all the daily check ins work fine. I bough the ZStick back in December so I guess I beat the crunch caused by the Gen 7 problems. I remember seeing comments about problems with the Gen 7 which is why I went with the 5+. Got lucky for once.
 

sebastiantombs

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Given the disaster that updating the home automation system has turned into, going from the Stone Age to modern, that's one less thing that kept me from throwing the whole thing in the trash, switches, remotes and all.
 

Mike A.

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Glad that you posted this. I'm building out a new HA system and looking for sticks now.

What are some good ones? I'm guessing that I should avoid any that have 700 or 7 as a model number?

Also need Zigbee but that's a different matter. Is there a good reliable device that provides both?
 

sebastiantombs

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HomeSeer pushes the Nortek HUSBZB-1 for ZWave and Zigbee. From what I've seen on their board it works well but is a generation older than the Gen5 stuff in terms of ZWave. That kind of eliminated it for me.
 

Mike A.

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Thanks. Most all of my Zwave and Zigbee devices are much older too and I'm unlikely to replace so maybe not in my case. Cheap enough to provide both that I could use it to get things up now and replace later without much of a hit.
 

sebastiantombs

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I think there's a ZWave Plus/Zigbee stick out there too. Might have seen it on Amazon but my memory isn't what it once was.
 

cybernetics1d

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If you're looking for both ZWave Plus and Zigbee in one USB stick, I'd recommend the GoControl/Nortek HUSBZB-1. I've been using it for past 6+ months with Home Assistant in a Proxmox VM with usb passthrough and it's been work good so far. THough I don't have that many devices connected at the moment, everything is working well for me at this point. When I look to add new smart devices to my home, I like that there are more options with Zigbee and it's usually cheaper when comparing to ZWave devices so I think it's worth having Zigbee support for HA if you can help it. Previously, I had SmartThings hub before I finally decided to migrate over to HA and I'm glad I did. Though it requires much tinkering compare to SmartThings, it gives you a lot more flexibility as platform and support much more integrations with support from the community.

I didn't know about the limitation with HUSBZB-1 stick doesn't support the standard network backup and restore commands, but if you're using HA in VM with regular backup, I don't think it's a big issue. Initially, when I started getting into HA, I used their pre-built VM (also known as HAOS) paired up with some existing devices for testing before moving away from SmartThings completely. Afterward, I decided to move into Home Assistant Supervised running on Debian 11 instead. Since I already had several devices paired up and fortunately, HA supports backup/restore and I was able to restore the backup from the HAOS installation to the new VM running HA Supervised and everything works as expected. I didn't even have to re-pair any of the devices paired previously under HAOS VM.
 

bp2008

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@cybernetics1d Yep, Home Assistant does a great job with backup and restore.

But it is tricky backing up the z-wave network data so you could restore it if the USB stick dies. The Zwavejs2Mqtt addon can't export from a HUSBZB-1 with its stock firmware:







There is a way to get a backup from HUSBZB-1 if you plug the stick in to a Windows PC. I haven't verified that it restores correctly, but here is how to back it up:

1) Install the CP210x Windows Drivers from here
2) Get Aeotec's z-stick gen5 backup utility from here, run zwave_500.exe, choose the appropriate com port if necessary, and click Read Eeprom and choose a location to save the file.

Supposedly if you update the firmware of the stick according to this guide then Zwavejs2Mqtt should be able to handle backups and restores and probably even convert the backup format so you could import it on another stick. But I haven't tried the firmware update so I cannot confirm it works like that.
 

bp2008

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When I rebuilt my z-wave network from scratch on a new stick, I added everything in the same order with the same names and rooms, but Home Assistant only managed to remap one of the old entities to the new version. All the rest were just missing so it left behind broken panels on the home screen, and automations that referenced the missing entities were broken and could not even be edited in the GUI.
 

Mike A.

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Yeah, I changed my mind and ordered the Sonoff CC2652 stick for the Zigbee side. $15 with a 20db antenna included. For that price I can get some Zibgee switches that I need back up and running now. Spend some more time looking at the Zwave options.
 

TonyR

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Given the disaster that updating the home automation system has turned into, going from the Stone Age to modern, that's one less thing that kept me from throwing the whole thing in the trash, switches, remotes and all.
Ah, yes....had a CP290 interface configured with an Apple II+ circa 1983, plus several controllers and a dozen or so modules and wall switches. Pretty high tech for early 80's....no complaints, it worked!

Worked great except couldn't get it to remotely dim the kerosene lamp I burned to write letters with a quill ink pen on parchment paper <end sarcasm>.
 
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The issue with the 700 series controllers has been finally acknowleged by SiLabs as a bug. The community has been trying to convince them since last year there were issues with it going offline under heavy loads. They released two update to the zwave sticks in January. 7.17.1 was the first but I haven't kept up with the latest release. A number of people are reporting great success after that update is applied with their network stability. The hub I use (Hubitat) is currently testing it internally with their team before releasing it to beta. Once its passed all the tests its an easy update on the hub.

So yes, if you have a 700 series stick, my first tip is try to reduce the amount of traffic on the zwave network by turning off things like power reporting on all devices that you don't need it until the update is rolled out to your hub.

I believe if you have the aeotec sticks (or any independing controller) you should be able to updated them if you can find the update. I don't have the links right now but the updates are talked about on the various forums/reddit rooms. This should help you out if you are stuck suffering with these issues.

I'm actually looking forward to this getting finally resolved.
 

bp2008

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@GavinCampbell One of the first things I did to troubleshoot was slow down and turn off power reporting from devices wherever it was possible. Of course, it didn't help.

I also installed the 7.17.1 firmware and it didn't fix anything for my network. That is when I decided enough was enough, and I bought an older stick. I just wish I had gotten an Aeotec gen5 stick from ebay or somewhere, because then I could have copied my network over without rebuilding it from scratch. I was really disappointed when the HUSBZB-1 wasn't compatible out of the box.
 
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@GavinCampbell One of the first things I did to troubleshoot was slow down and turn off power reporting from devices wherever it was possible. Of course, it didn't help.

I also installed the 7.17.1 firmware and it didn't fix anything for my network. That is when I decided enough was enough, and I bought an older stick. I just wish I had gotten an Aeotec gen5 stick from ebay or somewhere, because then I could have copied my network over without rebuilding it from scratch. I was really disappointed when the HUSBZB-1 wasn't compatible out of the box.
That sucks. I really hope they figure it out. The whole zwave 700 has been such a mess since its release. I've seen reports from people with issues with just a couple devices. I took me a long time to get my network to run reliable and even still something like a zooz vibration sensor can take down my network as it floods it with reports. Its only pushing more people to look at alternatives like zigbee or just wait on matter.

The good news is that its at least getting a lot of visibility. I heard rumblings of a .2 release and don't know if there are more but just a pain to keep track of.
 

aesterling

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@bp2008 thanks for posting! I'm just getting started with HA and this is helpful. I'll likely order the Nortek HUSBZB-1. Are you using an zigbee devices?

I've heard from a few people that instead of plugging the HUSBZB-1 directly into HA, I should consider running ZwaveJS2MQTT in Docker with the HUSBZB-1 USB ported to it. That way the zigbee and zwave services aren't restarted each time I have to restart Home Assistant (causing the network to go down temporarily.) Same for Zigbee using deCONZ in Docker.

Do you think that's worth the extra effort to separate them from Home Assistant, or is it better to keep it simple and just connect the HUSBZB-1 directly to HA? Thanks!
 

bp2008

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I haven't used zigbee.

That is interesting, I didn't know it was possible to separate ZwaveJS2MQTT from HA in that manner. I wouldn't do it though. Home Assistant only really needs restarted when you're actively working on it, e.g. you just told it to install an update, or maybe you broke HA somehow and are trying to troubleshoot.

Docker containers in general are often a pain in my ass, because they are kind of designed to be a black box where nothing better go wrong, because you have really shitty visibility into what is going on inside. I hate being utterly powerless to fix things by any other means than "delete and reinstall".
 
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I haven't used zigbee.

That is interesting, I didn't know it was possible to separate ZwaveJS2MQTT from HA in that manner. I wouldn't do it though. Home Assistant only really needs restarted when you're actively working on it, e.g. you just told it to install an update, or maybe you broke HA somehow and are trying to troubleshoot.

Docker containers in general are often a pain in my ass, because they are kind of designed to be a black box where nothing better go wrong, because you have really shitty visibility into what is going on inside. I hate being utterly powerless to fix things by any other means than "delete and reinstall".
by Silicon Labs
Firmware: 7.18.1

Hmph...never noticed this post before.
I acquired a series 700 Gen7 usb controller to upgrade over my Gen5 Aeotec at the beginning of 2022. Took me a good while to get around to seeing about upgrading to the Gen7 due to the biggy bug I kept reading about. Though there is no 'need' to upgrade to Gen7 but some of the benefits of Gen7 vs Gen5+ make me curious. It seems the bug has been corrected with firmware. I am in the middle of the Gen5 to Gen7 swap with a new HA OS instance on a newer Celeron NUC (I have power connection issues with my previous i3 Intel NUC).
I am not much of a Linux user so upgrading and changing HA to a new NUC has been... a big headache for me. But I'm getting there.
I did simply want to mention with the new firmware for the Gen7 stick, it seems to fix the problems you were experiencing earlier in 2022.
Of course, I see there is a 800 series coming out:
  • The Z-Wave 800 series provides a range of 1.5+ miles (2,300 meters) as opposed to 600 meters in Z-Wave 500.
  • The Z-Wave 800 series features a 5 mA improvement in TX current and 5 dBm improvement in RX sensitivity, resulting in a coin cell battery life of up to 10 years (1.5 years in Z-Wave 500).
  • Z-Wave 800 modules have a footprint of 6.5 x 6.5 mm while Z-Wave 500 modules require 8 x 8 mm – so, Z-Wave 800 modules are 25% smaller.
So who knows......
Z-Wave Modules Comparison

 
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teqnet

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I'm having exactly the same stability problems with my z-wave network with the gen 7 stick as mentioned above. Huge range and meshing issues with my gen 5 switches. An yes, I spent 4 hours on upgrading the firmware to 7.18 with the lousy toolset provided....
I sent a support request to Aeotec, I hope they have a solution...
Screenshot_20230102_202133_Chrome~2.jpg
 
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