Blueiris on a mini PC? Check out these specs!

joshwah

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Would love your feedback on running Blueiris on a mini PC vs full size PC with codeproject AI.

To give some background.. I am currently running BI on a full size case, Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-9100F, 16GB ram, 256GB OS, 2x internal 3.5" 4TB Red Drives and Nvidia 1650 SUPER. It is not uncommon for me to idle on 15-30% CPU but spikes to 70-80% for 8x 4mp cameras. My

The idea has come to me that I could consider upgrading to a MINI PC... only downside is NO GPU....

1. My PC CPU: i3-9100F (6,750 benchmark score)
2. Mini PC CPU: Ryzen 7 5800H (21,181 benchmark score).

A significant CPU boost ... I wonder if moving forward I should look at the MINI PC option ($400) or should I look at upgrading the CPU for around $200 (used)?

Thoughts?
 

garbia

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I am in the same boat, I have ordered a refurb Lenovo, I7 7700 with 32GB ram and 1TB HD which for sure will run bluiris and codeproject ai very well.....but for 100$ more I can get a mini PC with Ryzen 5800H 32 and 1TB
I can't find anyone that posted a review of a ryzen on a mini PC.
I have tried blue iris and codeproject ai on a N95mini pc and it was a disaster compared to my old I7 from 2013 (no support for quick sync but works) which is relatively stable!
On the N95 I struggled to make codeproject run decently
 

Starglow

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I bought an Intel NUC to run BI but they aren't cheap and then I ended up not using BI. You gotta be careful with some of the no name brand Mini PC's on Amazon. They're cheap but have very limited customer support behind them and no downloadable firmware updates....I have several at work, so I'm speaking from personal experience.
 

Starglow

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Can it supply enough power for 1 or 2 HDD's for video storage?
Does it have enough room for the above?
Does the "mini" case allow it to keep itself and all internals cool when running at it highest level of performance?
The Mini PC's use SSD drives and there's really not much inside there to overheat, but they do have a cooling fan, at least the Mini PC's I have do.
 

TonyR

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The Mini PC's use SSD drives and there's really not much inside there to overheat, but they do have a cooling fan, at least the Mini PC's I have do.
I realize that, my intent was to have the OP understand that he'll need room for a HDD for BI video clips and even if he can get one in there their tiny size can allow heat to build up as HDD's can generate some.

I've had fan-cooled mini-itx machines get pretty darn warm but OK with SSD, HDD and even an external P/Sand they're roomier than a mini. :cool:
 
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bp2008

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You gotta be careful with some of the no name brand Mini PC's on Amazon. They're cheap but have very limited customer support behind them and no downloadable firmware updates....I have several at work, so I'm speaking from personal experience.
I'll second that. I got a cheap one with a ryzen 5600u and it has noisy fans with a variable noise level. When it is sleeping, there is a high pitched capacitor whine when a bright LED on the machine pulses on and off. Worse, the onboard network port (Intel i225-v) is unreliable. I installed Windows 11 updates and Intel network drivers in a vain attempt to fix it, and the result was that the windows desktop wouldn't load anymore. So I ended up putting Linux Mint on there and the onboard network port stopped working again the very next time I tried to use the machine. That strongly suggests the flaw with the network port is at a hardware or BIOS level since it affected entirely different operating systems the same way.
 

mike32162

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I'm not familiar with AMD, but did run the BI demo on an Intel mini PC before going full boat.
It's not that great. You will most likely need to stick a WD purple (or surveillance rated drive) in an enclosure and connect via USB 3. That alone is not recommended (I asked). But for purposes of making sure everything worked, I tested it out before going down a more dedicated path.
My preference is a self-contained unit without any drives hanging over the side, subject to additional points of failure (power or sata cable accidentally disconnected, etc)...
And to be honest, the DELL SFF I ended up with is quieter and cheaper than a modern mini PC. Keep in mind, those have mobile CPU's.
I went with an Optiplex 7070, i7-9700. Added the WD purple already had, and for S&G since DDR4 is dirt cheap, filled out all 4 banks with 16 gig sticks.
12 cams connected to it for 3 days and so far, running like a champ.

IMHO, if you want a better specked machine, I'd demote something you are using as a main PC (if it's 8th gen or later) and build yourself a new box for creative work / gaming (if you do that sort of stuff). Intel 14th gen is out and for folks who love to have the latest and greatest, the 14700K looks good. Prices for 12 & 13 will likely come down further. Otherwise, wait a few months for the mainstream 14th gen chips to be released and follow same path.

Edit: I see you are on 9th gen, so my shorter answer would be upgrade the CPU. Maybe get the same i7-9700 if the board will support it? If you want to use anything faster than 2666 speed RAM, you need a K chip, and probably not worth it just to go to 3200 or 3600 and have to deal with additional cooling for the CPU. The step from i3 to i7 will likely be huge.
 
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mike32162

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I'm not familiar with AMD, but did run the BI demo on an Intel mini PC before going full boat.
It's not that great. You will most likely need to stick a WD purple (or surveillance rated drive) in an enclosure and connect via USB 3. That alone is not recommended (I asked). But for purposes of making sure everything worked, I tested it out before going down a more dedicated path.
My preference is a self-contained unit without any drives hanging over the side, subject to additional points of failure (power or sata cable accidentally disconnected, etc)...
And to be honest, the DELL SFF I ended up with is quieter and cheaper than a modern mini PC. Keep in mind, those have mobile CPU's.
I went with an Optiplex 7070, i7-9700. Added the WD purple already had, and for S&G since DDR4 is dirt cheap, filled out all 4 banks with 16 gig sticks.
12 cams connected to it for 3 days and so far, running like a champ.

IMHO, if you want a better specked machine, I'd demote something you are using as a main PC (if it's 8th gen or later) and build yourself a new box for creative work / gaming (if you do that sort of stuff). Intel 14th gen is out and for folks who love to have the latest and greatest, the 14700K looks good. Prices for 12 & 13 will likely come down further. Otherwise, wait a few months for the mainstream 14th gen chips to be released and follow same path.

Edit: I see you are on 9th gen, so my shorter answer would be upgrade the CPU. Maybe get the same i7-9700 if the board will support it? If you want to use anything faster than 2666 speed RAM, you need a K chip, and probably not worth it just to go to 3200 or 3600 and have to deal with additional cooling for the CPU. The step from i3 to i7 will likely be huge.
A quick check at the specs... You would get 8 cores opposed to the 2 you have. Prolly gonna make a big difference. $150 avg on flea bay, might be a worthy upgrade. Downside I see is clock speed. You have 3.6, it would drop to 3.
 

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Micro/mini computers are really neat and it is amazing how far they have come over time. That being said, I wouldn't buy one for BI use. Mini computers demand a price premium based on their small form factor. While that small form factor may have features that are desirable in some use cases, those features are pretty much a negative for BI use.

A BI machine will run 24/7 and need lots of storage. They are also normally placed somewhere out of sight where size isn't the biggest concern. Mini computers, while easy to hide behind a monitor, typically hava trouble with cooling and have very limited or no additional space for HDs. I certainly would not want to pay MORE for a computer that offers less functionality for my use case. An older small form factor office machine is generally the sweet spot for BI use. They are pretty small, but still large enough to have good cooling and space to add several additional HDs for video storage.
 

mike32162

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Micro/mini computers are really neat and it is amazing how far they have come over time. That being said, I wouldn't buy one for BI use. Mini computers demand a price premium based on their small form factor. While that small form factor may have features that are desirable in some use cases, those features are pretty much a negative for BI use.

A BI machine will run 24/7 and need lots of storage. They are also normally placed somewhere out of sight where size isn't the biggest concern. Mini computers, while easy to hide behind a monitor, typically hava trouble with cooling and have very limited or no additional space for HDs. I certainly would not want to pay MORE for a computer that offers less functionality for my use case. An older small form factor office machine is generally the sweet spot for BI use. They are pretty small, but still large enough to have good cooling and space to add several additional HDs for video storage.
Yep. As a newbie doing my first setup at my parents house I've learned a shit-ton and experimented on demo with a mini as I mentioned. Moving forward, I'd even divert from the Cliff Notes and NOT go SFF, especially Dell. For my parents, it's great. Set it and forget it. For myself, I want more flexibility. Here are the drawbacks (which I found) to even using SFF:

1) You must have NVME (you'd want it anyway) since there is only space for one 3.5" HDD. Mine had the OS on a 2.5" SSD in the HDD cradle. There was nowhere it move it and accommodate a WD purple at the same time. Luckily (with a ton of help on this forum) I found the only hidden NVME slot and was able to plop a drive in for the OS& BI and put the WD Purple where the SSD resided.
2) See #1. I would have really liked room for at least another, and probably 4 WD 12TB purple drives. I had to change my settings on every camera to record cont sub + trigger, or the drive would have filled up too quickly with 12 cameras going and my settings. 10 of them are 4MP. I need at least 30 days worth of storage due to the possibility of extended time away from the house.
3) There is only 1 NVME slot. I'm starting to read about Coral and apparently the USB version is buggy, but NVME works well. Can't do it in this system since the only NVME slot is running the OS & BI.
4) DELL is not conducive to future upgrades. Their SFF systems are nice, but their MB's and cases are proprietary and won't let you swap off the shelf common boards later on down the road.

Although the Cliff notes / Wiki are against it, I would go the extra mile and build, or perhaps down the road, better specked out systems on the refurb market to accommodate all of the above will become available.

TLDR;
I want at least 2 NVME slots and 2-4 3.5" HDD cradles in the next build. A better power supply would also be nice, in case I want a decent GPU.
 

TechBill

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I bought an Intel NUC to run BI but they aren't cheap and then I ended up not using BI. You gotta be careful with some of the no name brand Mini PC's on Amazon. They're cheap but have very limited customer support behind them and no downloadable firmware updates....I have several at work, so I'm speaking from personal experience.
The Mini PC's use SSD drives and there's really not much inside there to overheat, but they do have a cooling fan, at least the Mini PC's I have do.

Same here.

I brought a mini pc N100 to run BI on it and I changed direction and installed a a different OS and apps on it.

I never tested the BI on it. The way my N100 is handling the 9 cameras on two different apps, I would think that it could handle a on BI as well too. It got a built in GPU. I could be wrong since I really never tried BI on a smaller scale PC before. I have used BI on a tower desktop running i7 in the past with no AI thou.

The N100 came with a m.2 wifi card which I was able to swap out for Google coral card to use for AI and it also got a GPU which could be use for AI too. It does pack a punch and my son did play some games in Windows 10 on it before I wiped it out to install linux instead. My son was impressed with the built in GPU and how it handled some of his gaming with good fps. I am also running an another app on it that allow me to use Apple Homekit to monitor and alert me with it own Apple AI.

This Apple AI will display a picture in picture (PiP) on my TV screen in upper corner whenever a person approach to my door. I loved this feature. I am using m.2 drive for OS and a SSD drive for storage.

This is the mini pc I got .. it's a Chinese brand but it been reliable for me so far -
 
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mike32162

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Yep. As a newbie doing my first setup at my parents house I've learned a shit-ton and experimented on demo with a mini as I mentioned. Moving forward, I'd even divert from the Cliff Notes and NOT go SFF, especially Dell. For my parents, it's great. Set it and forget it. For myself, I want more flexibility. Here are the drawbacks (which I found) to even using SFF:

1) You must have NVME (you'd want it anyway) since there is only space for one 3.5" HDD. Mine had the OS on a 2.5" SSD in the HDD cradle. There was nowhere it move it and accommodate a WD purple at the same time. Luckily (with a ton of help on this forum) I found the only hidden NVME slot and was able to plop a drive in for the OS& BI and put the WD Purple where the SSD resided.
2) See #1. I would have really liked room for at least another, and probably 4 WD 12TB purple drives. I had to change my settings on every camera to record cont sub + trigger, or the drive would have filled up too quickly with 12 cameras going and my settings. 10 of them are 4MP. I need at least 30 days worth of storage due to the possibility of extended time away from the house.
3) There is only 1 NVME slot. I'm starting to read about Coral and apparently the USB version is buggy, but NVME works well. Can't do it in this system since the only NVME slot is running the OS & BI.
4) DELL is not conducive to future upgrades. Their SFF systems are nice, but their MB's and cases are proprietary and won't let you swap off the shelf common boards later on down the road.

Although the Cliff notes / Wiki are against it, I would go the extra mile and build, or perhaps down the road, better specked out systems on the refurb market to accommodate all of the above will become available.

TLDR;
I want at least 2 NVME slots and 2-4 3.5" HDD cradles in the next build. A better power supply would also be nice, in case I want a decent GPU.
After further reading, the 7070 has an A+E keyed m.2 slot used for wifi cards which might work with coral ai. I've gone the route of ordering a cheap PCIe adapter and coral tpu to try out, so if it works, those limitations can be overcome. You will still face the limitations of only 1 3.5" HDD bay no matter what, along with the limitation of being forced to use a low profile PCI powered GPU card if you want one. Since this is a set it and forget it system at my parents house, I'm not overly concerned. Just tinkering with it right now and checking for stability before I depart from here and leave it alone, but as "new" hobbyist and planning on my own system, I'll likely take the guts from 11700k system, use that, and build a 14th (or possibly 15th) gen system for work, when I get the upgrade itch.
 

esr03

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Same here.

I brought a mini pc N100 to run BI on it and I changed direction and installed a a different OS and apps on it.

I never tested the BI on it. The way my N100 is handling the 9 cameras on two different apps, I would think that it could handle a on BI as well too. It got a built in GPU. I could be wrong since I really never tried BI on a smaller scale PC before. I have used BI on a tower desktop running i7 in the past with no AI thou.

The N100 came with a m.2 wifi card which I was able to swap out for Google coral card to use for AI and it also got a GPU which could be use for AI too. It does pack a punch and my son did play some games in Windows 10 on it before I wiped it out to install linux instead. My son was impressed with the built in GPU and how it handled some of his gaming with good fps. I am also running an another app on it that allow me to use Apple Homekit to monitor and alert me with it own Apple AI.

This Apple AI will display a picture in picture (PiP) on my TV screen in upper corner whenever a person approach to my door. I loved this feature. I am using m.2 drive for OS and a SSD drive for storage.

This is the mini pc I got .. it's a Chinese brand but it been reliable for me so far -
Nice setup! Looking into a similar setup. Which Linux version are you running? Are you using Frigate or Blue Iris? Also are you recording 24/7 or only on events? I'm curious what SSD drive and how much you're using for storage and which app did you use for HomeKit ?
 
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TechBill

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Nice setup! Looking into a similar setup. Which Linux version are you running? Are you using Frigate or Blue Iris? Also are you recording 24/7 or only on events? I'm curious what SSD drive and how much you're using for storage and which app did you use for HomeKit ?
OS: Ubuntu Server - Ubuntu Server - for scale out workloads | Ubuntu
App: Scrypted - Scrypted
Homekit hub: AppleTV latest gen
SSD: PNY 2TB (not using but it's installed on minipc)
For AI: Google Corel (not using but it's installed on minipc)


Originally, I was plan on using Scrypted NVR with 2TB storage and Corel to do the AI. It turns out that Scrypted with Apple AI was good enough for my needs and I already have a NVR recording 24/7 with 4TB storage. I did try the trial period of the Scrypted NVR and it a pretty good NVR with corel AI. Not too hard to set up to try it out.

I only use Scrypted with Apple AI and Homekit to alert me of any events around my house in my Apple Ecosystem (Macbook, AppleTV, iPhone etc) notification. It will even pop up a picture in picture on my AppleTV anytime someone approach the door or press the doorbell. Apple will save event recording to your iCloud storage. 2 way Talk on Doorbell camera are supported in Scrypted on Homekit. I really like the Apple AI almost zero faults and pretty accurate. I don't even bother using the tripline or AI feature on my camera or camera NVR anymore (Dahua cameras and NVR). I use 100% Apple AI.

Keep in mind, it will require an Apple hub if you want to use Homekit which mean either using Homepod or AppleTV for a hub. I was having issue with my 1st gen AppleTV. the 1st gen was working giving me notification but I couldn't disable the unwanted notification like regular motion notification. I only wanted AI notification. After reading online that some were having issue while other were not then I noticed those with newest Apple TV gen were ones with no issue so I went and brought the newest with most memory storage and I never had issue again. Just perfect AI notification every time.
 

TechBill

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OS: Ubuntu Server - Ubuntu Server - for scale out workloads | Ubuntu
App: Scrypted - Scrypted
Homekit hub: AppleTV latest gen
SSD: PNY 2TB (not using but it's installed on minipc)
For AI: Google Corel (not using but it's installed on minipc)


Originally, I was plan on using Scrypted NVR with 2TB storage and Corel to do the AI. It turns out that Scrypted with Apple AI was good enough for my needs and I already have a NVR recording 24/7 with 4TB storage. I did try the trial period of the Scrypted NVR and it a pretty good NVR with corel AI. Not too hard to set up to try it out.

I only use Scrypted with Apple AI and Homekit to alert me of any events around my house in my Apple Ecosystem (Macbook, AppleTV, iPhone, iPad etc) notification. It will even pop up a picture in picture on my AppleTV anytime someone approach the door or press the doorbell. Apple will save event recording to your iCloud storage. 2 way Talk on Doorbell camera are supported in Scrypted on Homekit. I really like the Apple AI almost zero faults and pretty accurate. I don't even bother using the tripline or AI feature on my camera or camera NVR anymore (Dahua cameras and NVR). I use 100% Apple AI.

Keep in mind, it will require an Apple hub if you want to use Homekit which mean either using Homepod or AppleTV for a hub. I was having issue with my 1st gen AppleTV. the 1st gen was working giving me notification but I couldn't disable the unwanted notification like regular motion notification. I only wanted AI notification. After reading online that some were having issue while other were not then I noticed those with newest Apple TV gen were ones with no issue so I went and brought the newest with most memory storage and I never had issue again. Just perfect AI notification every time.
I also use home automation hub which have a built in Apple Homekit bridge Hubitat Elevation Model C8 - Hubitat Elevation® | Local, Reliable, Fast and Private Home Automation
There is a automation door lock installed on all of my exterior doors and when someone approach to my door while I am watching a show on AppleTV. It'll pop up a picture in picture alerting me and usually when it my kids or guests that I am expecting to come visit then I'll use Apple remote to go full screen which have a door lock icon to press on with remote then it'll unlock the door and I can resume to my TV show.

I more in love with AI notification. I am profound deaf since birth which mean I use sign language to communicate and with AI notification, I get perfect alerts around my house every time. Rarely, my dog in back yard would trigger as a person if he standing up leaning on my patio glass door cuz he a big dog so it's nice knowing nobody can sneak upon to my house without me knowing about it and also nicer not to have any more fault triggers from events notification. I been using Dahua tripline and AI with Dahua app mean I have to keep iPhone with me all time when watching TV and now I don't need to do that anymore.

I love my setup!
 

esr03

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I also use home automation hub which have a built in Apple Homekit bridge Hubitat Elevation Model C8 - Hubitat Elevation® | Local, Reliable, Fast and Private Home Automation
There is a automation door lock installed on all of my exterior doors and when someone approach to my door while I am watching a show on AppleTV. It'll pop up a picture in picture alerting me and usually when it my kids or guests that I am expecting to come visit then I'll use Apple remote to go full screen which have a door lock icon to press on with remote then it'll unlock the door and I can resume to my TV show.

I more in love with AI notification. I am profound deaf since birth which mean I use sign language to communicate and with AI notification, I get perfect alerts around my house every time. Rarely, my dog in back yard would trigger as a person if he standing up leaning on my patio glass door cuz he a big dog so it's nice knowing nobody can sneak upon to my house without me knowing about it and also nicer not to have any more fault triggers from events notification. I been using Dahua tripline and AI with Dahua app mean I have to keep iPhone with me all time when watching TV and now I don't need to do that anymore.

I love my setup!
Thanks for sharing. I have an Apple TV 4K and this would be a neat integration with Scrypted. Which Mini PC are you using and what handles the Apple AI? I am trying to get a setup that's the most energy efficient (< 25W for 5X 2MP and 2X 4MP Hikvision Camera's with Home Assistant running). I am a it confused whether you're using iCloud for Storage or an SSD or an HDD and whether this is external via USB or via PCIe/NVme?
 

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Thanks for sharing. I have an Apple TV 4K and this would be a neat integration with Scrypted. Which Mini PC are you using and what handles the Apple AI? I am trying to get a setup that's the most energy efficient (< 25W for 5X 2MP and 2X 4MP Hikvision Camera's with Home Assistant running). I am a it confused whether you're using iCloud for Storage or an SSD or an HDD and whether this is external via USB or via PCIe/NVme?
MiniPC: Beelink EQ12 N100 Beelink EQ12 Mini PC, with Intel® Celeron® Processor N100 useful in ofiice Mini Computers,16GB DDR4&500GB SSD optional, support Triple display,2.4g/5g Wi-Fi,BT5.2

Scrypted and Homekit plugin is used with a Homekit which also use the AI from Apple and the recordings are stored on iCloud. Local or USB drive storage are not used for this part. The mini pc is used to run Scrypted docker and that all. You do not need an SSD storage or google coral etc to use Scrypted Homekit version. It all uses Apple iCloud ecosystem to do all the work. If you have more than 2 camera or something like that then Apple require you to upgrade your iCloud plan to operate more cameras on it. This one is free to use and require a Apple hub.


Now there another version of Scrypted called "Scrypted NVR". This does not depend on or use Apple Homekit or iCloud or anything from Apple. It sort of like Blue Iris which is a complete functional standalone NVR with AI feature etc etc etc. For this one, mini pc is used to run Scrypted docker, coral AI, and to store recording on SSD. You do not even need a Apple hub and the developer from my understanding does offer iOS mobile app in beta stage to those who asked. The Scrypted NVR does have a yearly subscription plan so it's not free to use.

The mini pc I am using originally comes with a m.2 storage and a wifi card. My plan was to give Scrypted NVR a try to see how I like it so I brought a google coral and a SSD drive. The mini pc also accept a second standard SSD drive and I removed the wifi card to replace it with the google coral into the same slot.

I tried out the Scrypted NVR which was ok but I didn't need a 24/7 NVR and I liked Homekit notification better also the Apple AI only detected 4 types of AI which are People, Animal, Vehicle and Package so that the limitation of Apple AI. With Scrypted NVR, you can use google corel to teach and support more AI detections than just the Apple limitation of 4.

So I have minpc running Scrypted Homekit plugin and the google coral and SSD drive is in it was only used a short time during Scrypted NVR trial period then it just sit in there not being used anymore since I found the Homekit version is all I needed.

I believe the minipc will also handle your Home Assistance docker along with Scrypted Homekit. I did had homebridge on my minipc which bridge my home automation hub to the Homekit but they released a built in bridge so I stopped using Homebridge docker on the minipc.

I hope that clears it up for you some. If you are going to just try Scrypted Homekit then you do not need the google corel or the SSD for extra storage space. A minipc is all you need to try it out. I did try Scrypted on my Raspberry PI which did ran okay but I brought the MiniPC because I thought I would going to get the Scrypted NVR and use my own AI setup.

Really no matter what I loved that minipc better than a Raspberry PI .. I just not even come close to using up all the resources on it yet LOL ...
 

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Thanks for sharing. I have an Apple TV 4K and this would be a neat integration with Scrypted. Which Mini PC are you using and what handles the Apple AI? I am trying to get a setup that's the most energy efficient (< 25W for 5X 2MP and 2X 4MP Hikvision Camera's with Home Assistant running). I am a it confused whether you're using iCloud for Storage or an SSD or an HDD and whether this is external via USB or via PCIe/NVme?
Oh, I forgot to mention my Beelink EQ N100 come with Windows 11 Pro preinstalled. The WIndows 11 Pro was deleted and replaced with Ubuntu Server because Windows does weird stuff to dockers network bridging that Scrypted or many other dockers don't like about. You could always try Blue Iris on it before trying Scrypted. Be sure to register the mini pc on Windows Pro 11 before you delete the OS so you could always restore it without having a license key handy and it'll pull the key off internet to certify your copy of Windows 11 Pro on it.

Beelink even have a i5 or i7 minipc. It cost more so I never tried it or I haven't found someone who already own one to chat about with their experience on using it
 

esr03

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Thank you for the clarification. So I am thinking of N100, 16Gig of ram, Coral TPU M.2 (May not need with Apple) with a USB3 1-2X 6TB Skyhawk HDD. My goal is 24/7 sub-streams and main-stream for person-detection with AI snapshot push notifications and ability to quickly live from Apple TV.

If I wanted 7 camera's to show in HomeKit via Scripted would I need to get the iCloud subscription just for AI push notification or can I have all camera's with just live view?

What's the advantage of Scripted NVR ($70/yr for 7 camera's) VS Frigate NVR (Free + Coral TPU Purchase)?
 
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