Cable POE

Shockwave199

Known around here
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
550
Location
New York
I noticed that some cameras are now coming with the poe on the cable pigtail instead of inside the camera. Any thoughts on whether that is better or worse? It seems to me that it adds more bulk to the pigtail, as well as being susceptible to the weather. Thoughts? Direct experience yet?
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
36,902
Reaction score
21,274
When you say poe on the pigtail are your referring to the ethernet jack or an actual POE module? If the jack, then most cameras come with the jack on the pigtail. I wrap my connections with coax tape.
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
36,902
Reaction score
21,274
holy crap, that is unacceptable. I guess if you mount it to a box its not as bad...but i would not buy a camera like that.
 

networkcameracritic

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
719
Reaction score
203
My guess is they had problems with heat from the transformer that converts 48vdc to the 3-5V the circuit requires, so moving that out makes sense, but not pretty.
 

Shockwave199

Known around here
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
550
Location
New York
Yeah I was gonna suggest the heat these cameras generate might be the thought. But when it's 15° out in the winter here, that heat probably helps some. But the poe exposed is extra concern I think.
 

aster1x

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
400
Reaction score
87
My guess is they had problems with heat from the transformer that converts 48vdc to the 3-5V the circuit requires, so moving that out makes sense, but not pretty.
It is not possible to convert DC voltage with transformer. My guess is that they have included some regulator that converts 48V (the official PoE voltage) to something like 12 V. Now if the camera is 12V rated at say 5W that means the current the camera draws is 0.41A (with IR on is even higher). This means that the regulator must convert (48-12V)*0.41A=14.33W in heat. No wonder why the get hot!!!
I bet that the oblong box at the pigatail that is engraved with PoE gets hot. Can somebody converm this?
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
the microprocessors will run at 3v, the LED's probably at 12v so it has a couple voltage regulators in it; 48v is required to run dc through such small ethernet cables.. dropping the voltage down to its useable levels is trivial and wont generate much excess heat.. i doubt that module gets anything other than warm; its the sealed IP65 container with high power LED lamps that causes the heat buildup.

first reason I think they moved it out was they needed the space in the housing for more circuitry; power regulation tends to take up alot of valuable space and needs to be well isolated from sensitive electronics as they tend to be noisy from an RF perspective which causes problem with precise signal measurement... could of been a noise issue and this was the easiest way to resolve it.

it is poor design, reeks of being a cheap fix.. easier to do this then make a new housing format.. but thats china engineering for you.. why not only an ethernet port in the base of the bullet with a little rubber boot to keep it dry.. leme worry about the wires.. no one is using the 12v ports anyhow, poe injectors are cheap in china they could just include one in retail box units.. but that makes too much sence; everyone obviously has a power outlet near the other end of the ethernet cable.. On the plus side if they made replacement power boards it would be much easier to fix dead units.

all this circuitry can handle high heat; it was all cooked at 265c for a short time in an oven when it was made.. all the components have to be able to survive that for at least a few moments until the solder becomes molten. Obviously most components wont run in spec at half those temps; but you dont see that unless there is very poor cooling.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Shockwave199

Known around here
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
550
Location
New York
Well it seems to be that vendors are pricing this type cheaper. If it makes no difference to you, it seems some money can be saved. It's just that there is enough going on already on the pigtails of some cameras already. Some of them have more connections than a NY bookie for gods sake. I always thought the pigtails should plug and unplug from the camera itself to ease installation a bit. Like you suggested, just give me a port on the camera, thanks.
 

c.grex

n3wb
Joined
Aug 2, 2014
Messages
27
Reaction score
5
I've just got a camera through like this! Didn't show it in any of the pics on the advert, but listed it as a HFW4300 'V2' (version 2) new for 2014.

image.jpgimage.jpg

Its not not going to be a issue for my install, but I'd just prefer it if there was just a RJ45 port on the back of the camera!
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
I just got the same thing, thank god for these:
J93335.jpg

I installed two of em on a external enclosure with conduit running to it thankfully; I'd of hated to drill a couple 1-1/4in holes in my house for a pair of ethernet powered devices... dont make any damn sense.
 

lpark0110

n3wb
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Wouldn't you put PoE Cable through the wall anyway? However, now you got to drill a bigger hole to put it through the wall...
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
an ethernet cable can be tucked away behind trim/siding and only need a small 5/8th's hole to get through and then you put a connector on it and plug it right into the camera mount (Ideally if I engineered these damn things)

My 2200 dahua has that giant PoE box on it; it took an 1.25" hole to get it through and its far too big to hide under siding.. If you dont want a giant hole under the camera mount you basically have to mount it to an electrical box or something.

I can easially silicon seal up an ethernet cable poking out of the house; this giant hole would require a patch of some sort then silicon.
 

Shockwave199

Known around here
Joined
Mar 13, 2014
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
550
Location
New York
You know on my dahua 2mp mini dome, you could unplug the cable from the camera and feed that through a much smaller hole. Worked out great. You should check your mini pt camera. Bet it can do the same thing. It's just a small ribbon connecter that can unplug from the camera. They should all do that.
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
now only if I could crimp that ribbon connector right onto an ethernet cable and do away with there whole pigtail ;)
 

pal251

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
1,012
Reaction score
133
Have you tried fitting that poe module in a one gang or two gang junction box?
 

nayr

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
9,329
Reaction score
5,325
Location
Denver, CO
it would fit in a single junction box, I have basically a 2 gang box w/2 cameras mounted, ample room despite the big poe module on one camera.
 

pal251

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
1,012
Reaction score
133
I'm in the market for some bullets. Nellys has those for a good price I might try one out and see how it does.
 
Top