Camera positioning and lighting

[freddyq]

Hi all,

A few questions I have:

1. If I install two cameras in a way that they end up pointing almost directly at each other, is that OK to do? I'm just thinking from an IR point of view can it cause issues if IR beams are pointing straight at them?
2. What are the rules in terms of installing floodlights with cameras? I've got one location at the side of my house which is a long and narrow space (width of a car) where I have a floodlight already installed but also need to install a camera on the same wall as the floodlight. I've not got much width to keep the two apart so what do I need to make sure I do?
3. Is it OK if there is a floodlight installed in the field of view of a camera, facing the camera? Or is that going to cause issues?

Thanks!

 

[mech]

You may want to check out my threads below where I delved into settings to counteract having a floodlight in the camera's view, as well as the overexposure from a nearby floodlight that can wipe out useful detail.

IPC-T2385G-I Hikvision 8MP fixed turret (night videos added)
Dahua 5442TM-AS-LED

My advice is:

1. don't give up, scenes vary, some experimentation will be needed
2. as you experiment, closely examine still frames and see if you can see ear shape, cheekbone and jaw contour, eye socket structure, nose shape, the stuff that will actually ID a criminal when the time comes. I'll cite my 5442 as an example: in full AUTO mode with SSA enabled, the still picture is almost beyond belief. Night into day. But a person moving at a walking pace is a smear. That isn't going to cut it for me.
3. you might be able to block each camera's view of the other with a strategically-placed obstruction, like a hanging flowerpot or whatever.

 

[freddyq]

You may want to check out my threads below where I delved into settings to counteract having a floodlight in the camera's view, as well as the overexposure from a nearby floodlight that can wipe out useful detail.

IPC-T2385G-I Hikvision 8MP fixed turret (night videos added)
Dahua 5442TM-AS-LED

My advice is:

1. don't give up, scenes vary, some experimentation will be needed
2. as you experiment, closely examine still frames and see if you can see ear shape, cheekbone and jaw contour, eye socket structure, nose shape, the stuff that will actually ID a criminal when the time comes. I'll cite my 5442 as an example: in full AUTO mode with SSA enabled, the still picture is almost beyond belief. Night into day. But a person moving at a walking pace is a smear. That isn't going to cut it for me.
3. you might be able to block each camera's view of the other with a strategically-placed obstruction, like a hanging flowerpot or whatever.

OK on 1.

On 2, do the floodlight and cam need to be a certain minimum distance apart if they are on the same wall?

On 3, so is this a scenario I need to avoid or is it just something to tweak using software settings?

 

[mech]

on 2, I would say they can be very close to each other, if that's how things have to be. For example, the camera's own onboard lights are at zero separation from the camera, and that is the most common setup by far. If your camera will be at one end of your corridor scene, I would put the lights above the camera aiming the same direction, so no matter how close a prowler gets, they're never backlit by the floodlight. I had a scene just like that, and the backlight problem was very significant. Can you post photos of your scene to help people advise?

 

[mech]

Also, here is an example of that backlight issue. The overhead floodlights defeat the camera until the shed's motion-sensing floodlight kicks in and provides some light from the camera's viewpoint. This camera was a Dahua 5231 Starlight zoomed in specifically to get details on any prowlers who might come down the aisle, so a very similar case to yours.

 

[freddyq]

on 2, I would say they can be very close to each other, if that's how things have to be. For example, the camera's own onboard lights are at zero separation from the camera, and that is the most common setup by far. If your camera will be at one end of your corridor scene, I would put the lights above the camera aiming the same direction, so no matter how close a prowler gets, they're never backlit by the floodlight. I had a scene just like that, and the backlight problem was very significant. Can you post photos of your scene to help people advise?

I'll try and take some pics to post but not sure I'll be able to install one above the other. They'll be installed on the front of a part of my house which is at the end of this side access so they'll have to be at the same level as each other but I can probably separate them by 50-60cm maybe..

 

[freddyq]

Also, here is an example of that backlight issue. The overhead floodlights defeat the camera until the shed's motion-sensing floodlight kicks in and provides some light from the camera's viewpoint. This camera was a Dahua 5231 Starlight zoomed in specifically to get details on any prowlers who might come down the aisle, so a very similar case to yours.

View attachment 50818

Also, where is the floodlight in relation to the camera in these pics?

 

[keneil01]

I’m not an camera expert... Regarding floodlights, I would guess it better to have lights on each side of the camera and with some distance. This will cancel out shadows. If the light and camera sensor are close together, the light reflection will return to the camera sensor and you will get a more uneven light picture. Just my thoughts...

 

[freddyq]

Found a pic on my phone, this is what I'm trying to describe. You can see where the floodlight is right now so camera will go on that same fascia so I can move the floodlight to be off centre to the left maybe and put the camera off centre to the right but I don't have much room to play with.

Alternatively would it be better if I looked at putting the floodlight on the wall to the right above the white door? In this case the floodlight will be in front of the camera..

 

[mech]

I would put the camera in the spot circled below. That's the relationship between my floodlight and camera from my corridor sample I posted previously, and also for my 5442 which is featured in the thread I mentioned, where I went into details on how I dealt with the strong front lighting.

 

[looney2ns]

Always, always test a proposed location with a portable test rig for a minimum of 24hrs prior to permanent install.
Use a 5 gal bucket, 8ft 2x4 and rocks for ballast.
You may be able to put that cam into corridor mode, to catch more of the drive, and less of the walls.

 

[freddyq]

I would put the camera in the spot circled below. That's the relationship between my floodlight and camera from my corridor sample I posted previously, and also for my 5442 which is featured in the thread I mentioned, where I went into details on how I dealt with the strong front lighting.

View attachment 50837

Thanks @mech good to get some validation

 

[freddyq]

Always, always test a proposed location with a portable test rig for a minimum of 24hrs prior to permanent install.
Use a 5 gal bucket, 8ft 2x4 and rocks for ballast.
You may be able to put that cam into corridor mode, to catch more of the drive, and less of the walls.

Thanks for the reminder, I will attempt to test it in that location before finalising install. I was initially planning a 2231 there but I'm now going for a 5442 ZE 4MP varifocal bullet which I'll put in portrait mode to concentrate the pixels on the narrow space I need to monitor.