IPC-T2385G-I Hikvision 8MP fixed turret (night videos added)

mech

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I picked up a 2.8mm fixed-lens Hikvision from Andy to try out.

Hikvision's infos: 8 MP Outdoor IR Fixed Network Turret Camera
Andy's listing: US $150.0 5% OFF|2019 Latest New 8MP IPC T2385G I IR Fixed Lens Turret POE Network Camera IP67,Free DHL shipping on AliExpress - 11.11_Double 11_Singles' Day

Dahua's overview:

1572724512171.png

I gave it the mailbox job, in place of a Dahua IPC-HDW2231R-ZS, which had been zoomed as wide as possible at 2.8mm. So it doubles the pixel density (2160 pixels vertically).

Initial impression I fired it up and got accustomed to Hik's menu system, since this is my first Hikvision cam. One of my first discoveries was that it has no AUTO shutter mode. I can set separate day and night profiles, but it's up to me to specify a shutter speed for each. Ordinarily I would either set daytime shutter to AUTO, or specify a range of shutter speeds like on a Dahua in Manual exposure mode. Edit: per alastairstevenson I may be misunderstanding this setting. The specified shutter may just be the slowest setting allowed. After some experimentation, I think he's right. I set the exposure to 1/3 second in full sunlight and it did not turn into a whiteout scene, so I think the chosen shutter speed is simply a lower limit.

Daytime performance With twice the pixel density, face identification range is boosted as expected. I played with the configuration and found that fine detail is highest with no Backlight compensation (as opposed to using WDR or HLC to brighten up the dark areas), but the downside is that highlights from direct sunlight blow away detail too. I haven't found any other alternative in the form of Gain, Exposure, or the Brightness and Contrast settings. There's no Gamma adjustment like a Dahua would have, or that probably would have been a good option.

I also tried several bitrate settings. With Constant bitrate mode, passing cars are followed by visible artifact trails at lower bitrates, so I recommend the highest bitrate of 16Mbit/sec or else use Variable bitrate and Highest quality.

Here's a video showing how the scene reacts to various Backlight compensation settings, shutter-speed settings, Gain, and Brightness/Contrast. The focus of most of the video is a car with sunlight overexposing the hood.


1:00 into the video shows how HLC has brought out detail in the highly-exposed area, but also muted the detail in some pavement beyond the car.
1:45 into the video I swap to medium WDR, same effect. You can see the rib on the car's hood, and the little shark-fin things on the left and right edges of the hood, but some detail is lost.
2:40 into the video I reduce Brightness and Contrast to zero in an effort to bring out the hood details without using Backlight compensations. The rest of the scene suffers; it's not really a solution.
3:00 I try reducing Gain, then setting shutter speed to 1/10000th, to see if the overexposure can be addressed that way (no), then 1/250th for contrast, then back to 1/1000th

I tried moving the sun to the other side of the planet, but there's some kind of security lockdown on it, so I'm afraid I'm stuck with the sunlight coming from that direction. I'll play around with the HLC versus no-HLC option and see which one is the best compromise for this scene. For $150 for an 8MP camera, I'm not expecting miracles.

Edit: here are some shots of me standing still in front of the backlit car, including a crop showing HLC off versus on. As you can see, it's a trade-off.

HLC comparison.jpgHLC off.jpgHLC on.jpgWDR 44.jpg
 
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mech

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I experimented with the night settings. Here's some video clips from two configurations, one with HLC enabled and one with HLC disabled. As you can see, there is very strong light from that fixture. It allows a fast shutter setting to prevent motion blur on moving subjects, but can easily overexpose them and wash out useful detail. I can either use HLC or WDR to balance the bright and dark sections. OR I can avoid using either HLC or WDR, and then make substantial changes to the Brightness and Contrast to try to reduce overexposure.


Above: HLC enabled, using the settings shown below, prioritizing on a fast 1/200th shutter to prevent blur on people at a walking pace.


1572751427100.png
1572751460161.png

1572751480898.png

1572751500026.png
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************


Above: HLC disabled

Next up (above) is a clip with HLC disabled, Brightness down to 15 and Contrast at 25, and Time DNR reduced to 20 (since there's less noise with HLC turned off). When I'm directly in the path of a floodlight, you can't make out much fine detail in ear shape and so forth, and the logos on the jacket can get blown out. I could reduce Contrast, it has an HLC-like effect of brightening dark areas and dimming overexposed areas.

So this is how see the Backlight pros and cons:

Points in favor of HLC: it brightens up the dark areas and is better at preventing overexposure if your subject is in strong light.
Points in favor of no backlight compensation: it causes less noise and requires less noise reduction, potentially pulling out more detail on a subject who never gets close to the strong lights.

Which is better in my scene? Probably HLC enabled at night, and HLC disabled during daytime.

Overall, I think it's meeting expectations for a $150 camera and outperforming the 2231 it replaced, other than not being a varifiocal.
 
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alastairstevenson

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but it's up to me to specify a shutter speed for each.
i believe, and it would be good if others can confirm, that the setting is 'the slowest exposure time' and that it auto-adjusts as needed to a faster value.
 

Jake1979

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Being that the sensor is 1/2" and 8MP, is that a problem, clarity/quality wise in day/night on the DS-2CD2385G1-I ?

I didn't realize that you can set different settings for day and night mode... I'm used to cheaper models. :)
 

mech

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Being that the sensor is 1/2" and 8MP, is that a problem, clarity/quality wise in day/night on the DS-2CD2385G1-I ?

I didn't realize that you can set different settings for day and night mode... I'm used to cheaper models. :)
It took some experimentation to understand the influence of the various settings and get it optimal for my scene and my goals. I need usable identification details on prowlers walking around the cars, preferably in color. The videos I posted above should give you a feel for the image quality. Overall, I think it came out good for a camera that was $150 shipped, and I might consider a couple more of these to replace some aging 3MP cameras.
 

venturis

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One item worth noting is that the FOV of the 2385G1-I may be larger than Hikvision specifies.

I purchased a new 2CD2385G1-I to replace a 2CD2385FWD-I hoping to improve night time viewing at the front of my property.

My previous camera was fitted with a 4mm lens which allowed me to resolve license plates at around 25-30 metres from the camera on a good day. Happy with the performance of the 4mm lens I order the G1 with the same lens.

Hikvision quotes the 2385FWD-I with the 4mm lens as having a 79 degrees horizontal FOV and the 2385G1-I 4mm having 78mm horizontal FOV which should provide almost identical coverage and pixel density.

The problem was that when I put the 2385FWD-I and the new 2385G1-I side by side pointed at the same scene, the G1 camera had a notably wider horizontal FOV than the FWD-I. I estimate it could be as much as 5 degrees more. The same is also true of the vertical FOV. The new G1 camera has a taller image.

Normally, I wouldn't be complaining when getting something extra for nothing but the wider than specified FOV of the G1 with the 4mm lens results in less pixels/metre at any given distance from the camera.

I was already pushing the limits of the old 2385FWD-I by trying to read number plates at 25-30 meters.

Surprisingly, when I trialed the 2385G1-I and 2385FWD-I at around 12 metres from a test number plate and zoomed into the plate until the characters filled the display, the image was actually sharper/clearer on the G1. That could just be that the G1 has a better focused lens.

I would have preferred the 78 degree FOV as specified by Hikvision as it would have resulted in better license plate recognition at the same distance compared to the 2385FWD-I.
 

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Above, one more night video. This interesting guy showed up in a van with no license plates, carrying a 3/4-empty bottle of whiskey, and seemed to be trying to find a non-existent apartment. He returned a little later for another try. I happened to be awake and watching, so I called the crime line and let them know. Video is BlueIris being captured by Microsoft Game Bar, allowing stop-action and zooming. If you're trying to ID someone, this is what you'd be doing.

The settings the camera was using are in the description of the video, as well as below. I might actually try reducing the Sharpness down to 50, it might be counterproductive in low light. The other takeaway from this video and the other night videos, is that I could use more light coming from the right side. If only the resident directly above this camera would run his porch light at night...

Brightness 15
Contrast 25
Saturation 50
Sharpness 55
1/200th minimum shutter speed
60 maximum Gain
HLC at 50

@venturis I thought the same thing when I installed a 2.8mm model, the view seemed wider than the 2.8mm Dahua that it replaced. I almost wondered if the 4mm would have been the right choice. The vertical coverage gets all of the mailboxes in view, which is a primary task for this camera, and the results are still acceptable over at the bottom of the far staircase, so I guess I'll let it keep its spot. I did order another 2.8mm to cover the building's entire south face, and a 4mm that will go over by our shed in a portrait orientation.

I asked @EMPIRETECANDY about the CB135 junction boxes that these turrets would use, and he said he'll add those to his store in the future. For now, I grabbed some off Amazon for my two incoming cams.
 
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civic17

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Nice review thanks. I'm also been using HLC 50 on my camera mounted facing south. I found it to have the most accurate color compared to using WDR. Did you test out the line detection? In event > smart event > line crossing detection I'm not able to draw more than 1 line. Clicking the line drop down box does nothing.
 

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Nice review thanks. I'm also been using HLC 50 on my camera mounted facing south. I found it to have the most accurate color compared to using WDR. Did you test out the line detection? In event > smart event > line crossing detection I'm not able to draw more than 1 line. Clicking the line drop down box does nothing.
I see what you mean. I can draw one line, but the dropdown doesn't let me add another. I don't have a Hik NVR (I'm using BlueIris) so as a test, I disabled BlueIris's motion detector and enabled the camera's Smart Event instead, and set it to do a FTP upload and also alert Blue Iris from the camera end, which ought to make BI save a snapshot.

I am not getting any triggers or snapshot photos from that setup, so I'm thinking a Hikvision NVR is needed to make that work as intended.
 

venturis

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Ive had this camera installed for only three days now and I'm sad to say that in my view it's not worth all the hype. @mech 's review is quite extensive and looks to be overall positive but if I'd been reviewing this camera today, I'd be suggesting that you stay away from this particular model.

First, lets start with construction. The new camera is physically larger than the previous generation of turrets which makes the PCD of the mounting holes larger and therefore new mounting holes will be required if you are replacing any of the previous generation of turrets. Not a biggy but worth noting.

The frame that holds the gimble in place is now plastic (was die cast metal) and is secured by the torx security screw was bending and flexing the plastic frame when tightened. I ended up backing off the screw as it seemed to distort the plastic frame.

The front of the camera is fitted with a glossy plastic cover that surrounds the glass lens cover. The plastic cover is high gloss which will immediately be scratched to all hell once dirt is wiped off a few times. The plastic piece also does not appear to be sealed around the edges which suggests water and dirt can enter behind the plastic. I could push a fingernail under the plastic which lifted slightly when pried away indicating that it was not sealed to the face of the camera.

The plastic cover appears to be covering the IR LEDs and without removing the plastic cover it's unknown how the IR leds are sealed against moisture ingress or whether dirt/moisture can become trapped between the plastic cover and the IR LEDs. At this stage I was not keen to pull off the plastic to see what was behind in case my camera needs to be returned (which I will go into below).

For me, the unsealed glossy black plastic cover is a backward step from what was a proven design on the previous gen turrets.

Then there is the performance of the camera when installed.

As noted in my earlier post in this thread, the 2385G1-I appears to have a wider FOV than quoted in Hikvision's specs. I can only confirm this for the 4mm lens as I don't have another with 2,8mm or 6mm lens to compare. The wider FOV compared to my 2385FWD-I 4mm turret results in lower pixel density and correspondingly lower face/license plate readability (understanding that this is not a LPR camera).

On first power up I immediately noticed a reddish band down the complete left hand side of the scene. The reddish band measures about 150 pixels wide and moves with the camera so it is definitely the image sensor causing the discoloration. This might just be a faulty CCD. It is currently sitting with the supplier for a response.

The night vision is better but I'm not blown away with the improvement over my 2385FWD-I. The contrast is better with some improvement of detail in dark areas but, not sure if it is a generational improvement over the 2385FWD-I and worth the cost and time of replacing an existing batch of cameras.

I've been unable to use the built in IR as when switched on, the IR creates such a bright spot in the middle of the image that it basically blows away any details. I've used manual control over the IR to lower the brightness to 5% and it is still too bright. The only option I had was to turn it off completely. The IR is not reflecting off any surfaces other than a driveway which is 6-7 metres away and the camera is placed such that light does not directly reflect back into the camera. So for now, it looks like I need to run with the IR turned off at night.

I also noted that a passing car (running left/right across the scene) with headlights on causes the entire scene to darken as the camera tries to compensate for the bright lights. Now, to be clear, the headlights are not pointed at the camera but rather are directed parallel the camera face and a good 15 metres from the camera. I could understand if the lights shone directly into the camera but the are nowhere near the camera face.

Nothing in the settings appears to resolve the problem, HLC on/off, BLC on/off, WDR on/off. All have been tested without success.

Then there is the aberration caused by bright lights entering from the LHS of frame. At night, when a car passes the camera from the far left of frame, a bright shard of light appears in the top left hand quadrant of the image until the car headlights are approximately in front of the camera. The lights are not directed at the camera but are some distance away pointed across the image.

The same aberration is also evident first thing in the morning. As the sun rises in the East at dawn, there is an exceedingly bright shard of light on the image at same location as at night.

Interestingly, the same aberration does not occur when bright lights enter the scene from the RHS of frame.

Maybe it is a faulty CCD but I more inclined to think that the phenomena is caused by internal reflections between lens and glass plate. In any event, my 2385FWD-I mounted in exactly the same location and in the same orientation did not suffer this issue and it would appear there is nothing that can be done to remedy the problem.

I've gone back to the supplier with details of all the above problems and will be looking for a refund. I will be going back to my 2385FWD-I and waiting for the next generation of turrets before taking the plunge again.
 
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freddyq

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Ive had this camera installed for only three days now and I'm sad to say that in my view it's not worth all the hype. @mech 's review is quite extensive and looks to be overall positive but if I'd been reviewing this camera today, I'd be suggesting that you stay away from this particular model.

First, lets start with construction. The new camera is physically larger than the previous generator of turrets which makes the PCD of the mounting holes larger and therefore new mounting holes will be required if you are replacing any of the previous generation of turrets. Not a biggy but worth noting.

The frame that holds the gimble in place and is secured by the torx security screw was bending and flexing when the screw was tightened. I ended up backing off the screw as it seemed to distort the plastic frame.

The front of the camera is fitted with a glossy plastic cover that surrounds the glass lens cover. The plastic cover is high gloss which will immediately be scratched to all hell once dirt is wiped off a few times. The plastic piece also does not appear to be sealed around the edges which suggests water and dirt can enter behind the plastic. I could push a fingernail under the plastic which lifted slightly when pried away indicating that it was not sealed to the face of the camera.

The plastic cover appears to be covering the IR LEDs and without removing the plastic cover it's unknown how the IR leds are sealed against moisture ingress or whether dirt/moisture can become trapped between the plastic cover and the IR LEDs. At this stage I was not keen to pull off the plastic to see what was behind in case my camera needs to be returned (which I will go into below).

For me, the unsealed glossy black plastic cover is a backward step from what was a proven design on the previous gen turrets.

Then there is the performance of the camera when installed.

As noted in my earlier post in this thread, the 2385G1-I appears to have a wider FOV than quoted in Hikvision's specs. I can only confirm this for the 4mm lens as I don't have another with 2,8mm or 6mm lense to compare. The wider FOV compared to my 2385FWD-I 4mm turret results in lower pixel density and correspondingly lower face/license plate readability (understanding that this is not a LPR camera).

On first power up I immediately noticed a reddish band down the complete left hand side of the scene. The reddish band measures about 150 pixels wide and moves with the camera so it is definitley the image sensor causing the discolouration. This might just be a faulty CCD. It is currently sitting with the supplier for a response.

The night vision is better but I'm not blown away with the improvement over my 2385FWD-I. The contrast is better and some improvement of detail in dark areas but, not sure if it is a generational improvement over the 2385FWD-I and worth the cost and time of replacing an existing batch of cameras.

I've been unable to use the built in IR as when switched on, the IR creates such a bright hot spot in the middle of the image that it basically blows away any details. I've used manual control over the IR to lower the brightness to 5% and it is still too bright. The only option I had was to turn it off completely. The IR is not reflecting off any surfaces other than a driveway which is 6-7 metres away and the camera is placed such that light does not directly reflect back into the camera. So for now, it looks like I need to run with the IR turned off at night.

I also noted that a passing car (running left/right across the scene) with headlights on causes the entire scene to darken as the camera tries to compensate for the bright headlights. Now, to be clear, the headlights are not pointed at the camera but rather are directed parallel the camera face and a good 15 metres from the camera. I could understand if the lights shone directly into the camera but the are nowhere near the camera face.

Nothing in the settings appears to resolve the problem, HLC on/off, BLC on/off, WDR on/off. All have been tested without success.

Then there is the aberration caused by bright lights entering from the LHS of frame. At night, when a car passes the camera from the far left of frame, a bright shard of light appears in the top left hand quadrant of the image until the bright light is approximately in front of the camera. The lights are not directed at the camera but are some distance away pointed across the image.

The same aberration is also evident first thing in the morning. As the sun rises in the East at dawn, there is an exceedingly bright shard of light on the image at same location as at night.

Interestingly, the same aberration does not occur when bright lights enter the scene from the RHS of frame.

Maybe it is a faulty CCD or I am experiencing internal reflections between lens and glass plate. In any event, my 2385FWD-I mounted in exactly the same location and in the same orientation did not suffer this issue and it would appear there is nothing that can be done to remedy the problem.

I've gone back to the supplier with details of all the above problems and will be looking for a refund. I will be going back to my 2385FWD-I and waiting for the next generation of turrets before taking the plunge again.
Very interesting report and thanks a lot for this. I will probably avoid this camera on that basis.

Given I'm not planning to wait for anything expected to come out in future, is there another camera or cameras from any brand, which people can recommend for me to put at the front of my house? I'm thinking something like this Hik which has a 4K sensor for good quality day footage, varifocal, or 4mm focal length, turret style and strong low light performance taking into consideration there will be a floodlight to provide plenty of light...
 

mech

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Very interesting report and thanks a lot for this. I will probably avoid this camera on that basis.

Given I'm not planning to wait for anything expected to come out in future, is there another camera or cameras from any brand, which people can recommend for me to put at the front of my house? I'm thinking something like this Hik which has a 4K sensor for good quality day footage, varifocal, or 4mm focal length, turret style and strong low light performance taking into consideration there will be a floodlight to provide plenty of light...
Bosch 8000i Starlight 8MP would be a nice alternative :) A serious camera, but high up-front cost at $1200.

I'll give one of my incoming Hiks a water-intrusion test in the shower and verify whether direct water exposure could get anywhere that affects it, and let you know either of them have the sensor-related issues venturis is getting.
 

freddyq

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Bosch 8000i Starlight 8MP would be a nice alternative :) A serious camera, but high up-front cost at $1200.

I'll give one of my incoming Hiks a water-intrusion test in the shower and verify whether direct water exposure could get anywhere that affects it, and let you know either of them have the sensor-related issues venturis is getting.
Wowzers! Yea $1200 definitely way out of my budget :)
 

mech

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And Bosch is made by Dahua.
The 8000i is made in Portugal by what I guess you'd call "the real Bosch", like my 8000 Starlights and 8000 Ultra. I have some of their Chinese-made models too, which I'm also fond of, like my 6000 Starlights.

@EMPIRETECANDY apparently has a time machine, because I paid for my two additional Hiks late Saturday, and today a girl with purple hair in a DHL uniform delivered them before noon. How is he even DOING that? :wtf: Anyway, I'm going to put one in my shower for a half-hour and see if it withstands a steady rainfall. Details at 11! :)
 

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Co-worker: so did you do anything fun last night?

Me: YEAH! :) I imported a camera from China, plugged it in, and put it in my shower!

Co-worker: … :wtf:

Me: I mean, in order to verify that it's waterproof. Naturally. I mean, what do YOU do at home?


Mr. Hik appears to be OK in rain, you don't ordinarily aim a security cam upwards at the incoming rainfall either. I pressed on the edge of the black glossy plastic to see if I saw evidence of water getting under it, and it didn't look like it.


20191112_201442[1].jpg 20191112_201618[1].jpg
 

mech

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@venturis also brought up an important point I had not tested with my first Hik, how does it do in a dark scene with IR? This next one goes on the unlighted side of the building where it'll need to run IR, so I did a quick spot-check out my window. This is the target scene, although the camera will be half this distance from the ground once installed.

hik3.20191112_202944747_1.jpg


First clip (above) is stock AUTO with Smart IR off (it defaults that way). You can see some of the light shards that venturis mentioned in this clip.


Next clip above is 1/200th exposure, because I'm not a fan of blur if I can avoid it. Again, you can see the light "shards" that precede the appearance of a vehicle approaching from the side of the scene.

I hope that is useful :) Holler if you want any other stuff checked out! And if this model interests you in a dark scene, also check back once I have it installed properly. I'll be putting up some more night (and day) videos in my stop-and-zoom-in style, so you can see what your actual still photos would look like if you need to ID someone.
 
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dohat leku

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guessing no audio on this one? Is there an interface for an external mic but having it inserted inside the camera housing? Thx
 
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