Camera thinks telephone pole is human

camarolt1guy

Getting the hang of it
Apr 4, 2024
97
82
texas
Anyone know how to get the camera or NVR to stop tagging a telephone pole as human? It also does it with my backyard playground. The NVR currently runs Acupic and IVS. It would be great if I could just draw a box around it and say its not human. I dont want to completely block it out though as I do get a few actual humans that go past it daily.

I have 100's of logs from the last few days from that pole and playground.
 
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I have a bush across the street that my 4K-X likes to think is a human every once in a while Rare, but it happens.

I suppose the newer AI cameras with "learning" will eventually be helpful on this
 
My PTZ would always try it's damnedest to track my fire hydrant. It stopped when I changed the FOV.

Could you possible black out portions of the the pole, and not the entire thing? Areas where it wouldn't compromise the FOV for actual captures?
 
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My PTZ would always try it's damnedest to track my fire hydrant. It stopped when I changed the FOV.

Could you possible black out portions of the the pole, and not the entire thing? Areas where it wouldn't compromise the FOV for actual captures?

Lol my PTZ tries to track the side of my house thats not in view of any camera. Complete blind spot. I have a shingle that flaps right on the edge and somehow it zooms in on it. Its weird because not even the PTZ can see it. Maybe the PTZ can really see 2.8 but only shows me 5 at the lowest.
As for the pole, not really because people do stop at that pole quite often.
 
As you will learn to find out, tracking PTZs are not plug-n-play.

Most of us have spent HOURS dialing it in to our scene.

Keeping the settings on auto/default settings is a recipe for poor tracking, especially at night.

You can't setting out every instance, but there are ways to minimize it.

Something as simple as having contrast 8 higher than brightness can make a big difference in whether the camera continues to follow the person or lock onto something else

I have a yard lamp post that more times than not autotrack would get stuck on it as someone was walking and the autotrack would only go so far as it decided to track the lamp post. Because my image has soo much contrast (bright white concrete a third, blacktop road a third, grass a third), knocking down the gamma made the lamp post not be so "trackable" lol, and along with that I turned of PFA and that gave it just enough time to retrack the person walking past the lamp post.

So you have to try the different settings and see which works best for you. PFA may need to be off, autofocus may need to be on semi, etc. Tracking size will be a big factor as well.

There really is no set guidelines that work in every situation.


In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures and help the camera recognize people and cars.

Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image. But try not to go above 70 for anything and try to have contrast be at least 7-10 digits higher than brightness.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 
The PTZ actually does pretty good for the most part. It does have its drawbacks like if a group of 3 is kinda spaced out walking then I'm only getting one of them. It also has a fetish for trailers for some reason lol. It tracks really good when its the one that first picks up the motion. If a spotter does then it might track or it might get stuck in the spotters zone.
The one that keeps getting the telephone pole is a t54ir. I'll have to check on its settings. Its been a while but your settings are pretty much the baseline for all of mine. I actually have your setting guidelines printed out.

Right now I'm just seeing if this new NVR has the options that could help exclude events or if its camera based. Like I have 1300 entrys for today and a good bit of them are my dog and kid playing in the back yard. Now I could turn off human detection for the back yard but would rather not if i could exclude them. One day I'll venture down the blue iris rabbit hole
 
One solution without retraining the AI would be to simply use a privacy mask and mask the pole. It's a pole so a black rectangle is no different. You might even be able to get away with masking within the pole depending on low large it is in the picture, so a little bit of pole can be seen each side of the mask making it less intrusive. You'd have to experiment. Either way, masking won't affect the effectiveness of your cctv as you can't see through the pole anyway, so mask or pole, it makes no different if the mask is the same size or smaller than the pole in width.
 
When y'all get your problems fixed, then figure out why I have a PTZ that likes to occasionally lock in on stationary vehicle tires . . . jumps straight from following humanoids to a tire. :(
 
As you will learn to find out, tracking PTZs are not plug-n-play.

Most of us have spent HOURS dialing it in to our scene.

Keeping the settings on auto/default settings is a recipe for poor tracking, especially at night.

You can't setting out every instance, but there are ways to minimize it.

Something as simple as having contrast 8 higher than brightness can make a big difference in whether the camera continues to follow the person or lock onto something else

I have a yard lamp post that more times than not autotrack would get stuck on it as someone was walking and the autotrack would only go so far as it decided to track the lamp post. Because my image has soo much contrast (bright white concrete a third, blacktop road a third, grass a third), knocking down the gamma made the lamp post not be so "trackable" lol, and along with that I turned of PFA and that gave it just enough time to retrack the person walking past the lamp post.

So you have to try the different settings and see which works best for you. PFA may need to be off, autofocus may need to be on semi, etc. Tracking size will be a big factor as well.

There really is no set guidelines that work in every situation.


In terms of getting the most out of the camera, here is my "standard" post that many use as a start for dialing in day and night that helps get the clean captures and help the camera recognize people and cars.

Start with:

H264
8192 bitrate
CBR
15FPS
15 iframes

Every field of view is different, but I have found you need contrast to usually be 6-8 higher than the brightness number at night.

We want the ability to freeze frame capture a clean image from the video at night, and that is only done with a shutter of 1/60 or faster. At night, default/auto may be on 1/12s shutter or worse to make the image bright.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared or white light.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image. But try not to go above 70 for anything and try to have contrast be at least 7-10 digits higher than brightness.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
what about the 3d nr settings? i have to set 50 for 2-3 cameras otherwise the picture will be too grainy.
 
My camera thinks our mailbox is human. You can see it clearly in the last video I posted:



When the guy opens the car door and steps to the mailbox, the camera followed him. However, after he got back in the car the camera did not follow him, instead it centered on the mailbox. My solution was to turn off the human tracking.