Cameras for monitoring industrial machinery.

[Gersers12]

Hello.

I'm looking for the best solution for monitoring industrial machines with security cameras. The plan would be to monitor each machine with it's own camera.

Additionally, the machines have their own electronic displays/screens which display information regarding machine's current task & potential faults. Preferably the camera
would be able to monitor the machine itself (approx 5 x 5 meters / 16.5x16,5 ft) and read what is said on the display (around 8 inch screen). I have never installed cameras for reading off electronic displays,
could there be difficulties with this?

The camera would be installed with a clear view of the display, and max 3 meters / 10ft from distance.


Thanks in advance.

 

[TonyR]

I am not familiar with the following CCTV rules in Europe but they seem extensive enough for you to check them out if you haven't already done so, especially before you begin the design and purchasing phases of your project.

General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

Data Protection Directive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

European Data Protection Supervisor

European Data Protection Supervisor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mat200]

Hello.

I'm looking for the best solution for monitoring industrial machines with security cameras. The plan would be to monitor each machine with it's own camera.

Additionally, the machines have their own electronic displays/screens which display information regarding machine's current task & potential faults. Preferably the camera
would be able to monitor the machine itself (approx 5 x 5 meters / 16.5x16,5 ft) and read what is said on the display (around 8 inch screen). I have never installed cameras for reading off electronic displays,
could there be difficulties with this?

The camera would be installed with a clear view of the display, and max 3 meters / 10ft from distance.


Thanks in advance.

Hi @Gersers12

You can try out a 8MP varifocal Hikvision or Dahua OEM camera to help determine the resolution / FOV you need ..

once you do that you will have a better idea of what fixed lens camera to try out

 

[TonyR]

+1^^.
And insure the 8MP has a sensor no smaller than 1/1.2"; a 4MP should have at least a 1/1.8".

 

[Photon Farmer]

the machines have their own electronic displays/screens which display information regarding machine's current task & potential faults. Preferably the camera
would be able to monitor the machine itself (approx 5 x 5 meters / 16.5x16,5 ft) and read what is said on the display (around 8 inch screen).

Requirements:
1) Monitor the industrial machine itself (approx 5 x 5 meters / 16.5x16,5 ft).
2) Read what is said on the display (around 8 inch screen) -- about 2 decimeters.

You will need two cameras per machine.
Cameras that can view a 16 foot by 16 foot area will not be able to read text on a 8 inch screen at the same time.

Additional data needed:
How far will camera be from machine?
How far will camera be from screen?
How good is lighting around machine?
How fast of motion of machine will you need to capture?
How fast of motion of screen will you need to capture?
Picture of machine from position of where you will mount camera would be helpful.
Picture of screen to gage size of data on screen would be very helpful.

I have never installed cameras for reading off electronic displays,
could there be difficulties with this?

Assuming display is LCD set camera angle for no glare.
I just held an iPad couple feet from a Dahawa model: IPC-HFW71242H-Z-X seemed to record fine.
I saw no refresh weirdness.

 

[Gersers12]

Thank you for the useful information.

You will need two cameras per machine.
Cameras that can view a 16 foot by 16 foot area will not be able to read text on a 8 inch screen at the same time.

This is good to know, i was considering using some 4MP mini-PTZ domes (e.g. DS-2DE2A404IW-DE3) which would have one presets for the "big picture" and one for the closeup of the small screen. This of course depends on if the customer is interested in recordings of both "presets" or if live-image would suffice.

On the other hand, this project will be happening in a building yet to be built so 1 extra cat cable per machine wouldn't be a problem, just a question of price difference with 1 / 2 cameras.

Additional data needed:
How far will camera be from machine?
How far will camera be from screen?
How good is lighting around machine?
How fast of motion of machine will you need to capture?
How fast of motion of screen will you need to capture?
Picture of machine from position of where you will mount camera would be helpful.
Picture of screen to gage size of data on screen would be very helpful.

1. Distance from machine: approx 10,5ft diagonally (example in attachments) Can be adjusted if necessary.
2. Distance to screen: approx 10,5ft diagonally (example in attachments) Can be adjusted if necessary.
3. Area will be well lit.
4. Machine: 15-20FPS will be fine, machine has quite a slow process.
5. Screen: Does not matter, 5FPS would be enough.
6. Machine, not accessible at this moment, example attached in files.
7. Not accessible at this moment, example attached in files.

Assuming display is LCD set camera angle for no glare.
I just held an iPad couple feet from a Dahawa model: IPC-HFW71242H-Z-X seemed to record fine.
I saw no refresh weirdness.

This is something i was afraid of, good to know. If there happened to be problems with refresh rate etc., is this something which usually could be tweaked in the camera settings?


If possible i would provide examples from the site / the real setup but that will have to wait. Thanks for the help.

 

[spuls]

if the machine has a video output, you could also fit a suitable streaming decoder. At least the common industrial panels from Siemens, Beckhoff, ABB,... have corresponding outputs for this application => 4K H.265/ H.264 HDMI, VGA und CVBS IP Streaming Decoder

 

[Gersers12]

if the machine has a video output, you could also fit a suitable streaming decoder. At least the common industrial panels from Siemens, Beckhoff, ABB,... have corresponding outputs for this application => 4K H.265/ H.264 HDMI, VGA und CVBS IP Streaming Decoder

I would imagine the customer would have considered this solution, will definitely check it out though.

 

[SIR VEYOR]

And look into RAM mounts and their accessories. You’re probably going to have a lot of vibration and unexpected harmonics going on. There may be better ain’t vibration option, but RAM is very commonly used option.

 

[Photon Farmer]

i was considering using some 4MP mini-PTZ domes (e.g. DS-2DE2A404IW-DE3) which would have one presets for the "big picture" and one for the closeup of the small screen. This of course depends on if the customer is interested in recordings of both "presets" or if live-image would suffice.

Using a PTZ with two presets may work.
I would be worried about how long motors and gears would last.
Camera would be in transition or on other preset over half the time.
Also would make scrubbing to find a change more challenging.

this project will be happening in a building yet to be built so 1 extra cat cable per machine wouldn't be a problem, just a question of price difference with 1 / 2 cameras.

What is the cost of one or two cameras compared to the price of that machine plus part of a new building?

If there happened to be problems with refresh rate etc., is this something which usually could be tweaked in the camera settings?

Problem with refresh would not be solved by changing frame rate.
Problem with refresh would be solved by making exposure time longer.

spuls idea is interesting, if feasible, it would solve glare, refresh, and visual obstructions.

1. Distance from machine: approx 10,5ft diagonally (example in attachments) Can be adjusted if necessary.
2. Distance to screen: approx 10,5ft diagonally (example in attachments) Can be adjusted if necessary.
3. Area will be well lit.
4. Machine: 15-20FPS will be fine, machine has quite a slow process.
5. Screen: Does not matter, 5FPS would be enough.
6. Machine, not accessible at this moment, example attached in files.
7. Not accessible at this moment, example attached in files.

Slow moving machine, well lit, so sensor size would no longer be one of the first things on my list.
Slow moving machine, 10-15 FPS should be good.
My choice for machine view would be something like IPC-T5442T-ZE, which is 4MP with 2.7 - 12mm zoom.

Still do know size of detail to record on screen.
I believe high magnification will be more important than MP.
So best guess I would go with IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E.
Below is a sample picture from Z12E at 8 feet, (24% shorter than your target distance).
This picture is 2 MP at max zoom possible at 8 feet.
At 10,5 feet maybe possible to increase zoom.

 

[spuls]

A dual lens PTZ linke the "Annke NCT400" could also work. Then you could zoom with the PTZ camera on the screen and keep the overview on the machine. Does not solve all the potential issues.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

read the monitor data better use a motorized lens. like 2.7-12mm lens. Fixed lens sometimes hard to read those data.