Can Cat5e interior lines be too thin? Install issues with new POE cameras..

[NGL]

Hello and thanks,

I am moving from the logitech alert POE system to a Dahua POE setup and thought I had a nice advantage for easy locations due to having the logitech cat5e cables buried in the outside walls of house during some remodeling.

Logitech alert uses the "flat" cat 5e but when I hooked up my new camera I would get no signal and frame rates would be approx 2.30 according to Blue Iris..Testing in the garage with standard guage cat5e and not logitech I was getting great performance..

I cut open one of the logitech cables to see the 8 cables inside the cat5e and noticed they were stranded wire and extremely thin in terms of gauge compared to a normal cat5e/5 you would have connected to your router.

Spent all day trying to fix this including taking the 8 lines inside the logitech cat5e and combining them (doubling them up) into 4 pairs then crimped a new rj45 on using only pins 1,2,3 and 6. ( i had a 1,2,3,6 patch cable I tested before so I know that setup works). I then line tested it with positive results but still no camera signal...the IR lights actually kicked in this evening but no video..

My only conclusion is the Logitech Cat5e is just too thin of interior wire to run these new cameras..

Distance from camera to router (with a POE switch in between about half way) is less than 50 feet..

Could that be the case based on all I did above?

 

[fenderman]

Hello and thanks,

I am moving from the logitech alert POE system to a Dahua POE setup and thought I had a nice advantage for easy locations due to having the logitech cat5e cables buried in the outside walls of house during some remodeling.

Logitech alert uses the "flat" cat 5e but when I hooked up my new camera I would get no signal and frame rates would be approx 2.30 according to Blue Iris..Testing in the garage with standard guage cat5e and not logitech I was getting great performance..

I cut open one of the logitech cables to see the 8 cables inside the cat5e and noticed they were stranded wire and extremely thin in terms of gauge compared to a normal cat5e/5 you would have connected to your router.

Spent all day trying to fix this including taking the 8 lines inside the logitech cat5e and combining them (doubling them up) into 4 pairs then crimped a new rj45 on using only pins 1,2,3 and 6. ( i had a 1,2,3,6 patch cable I tested before so I know that setup works). I then line tested it with positive results but still no camera signal...the IR lights actually kicked in this evening but no video..

My only conclusion is the Logitech Cat5e is just too thin of interior wire to run these new cameras..

Distance from camera to router (with a POE switch in between about half way) is less than 50 feet..

Could that be the case based on all I did above?

yes they are too thin..also the cable pairs need to be properly twisted to avoid interference...they need to follow the 568 standard...

 

[NGL]

thank you..
can I assume you are familiar with the alert wiring?
They call it cat5e in the spec sheets but obviously not .. my wire stripper goes down to 30 gauge and the individual wires slid right through .. I thought Cat 5 was min 26 gauge..
They are twisted pairs..

My challenge now is running new wiring to the front door location w/out the wife having a fit ..

 

[tangent]

My challenge now is running new wiring to the front door location w/out the wife having a fit ..

Post some pictures and a floor plan if you have it if you want advice.

buy a spool or box (500 or 1000') of bulk cable, solid copper no cca. Install it and terminate it.

 

[NGL]

thanks for the offer but not that big of a deal..
Old wire was buried and was in wall to the garage .. new wire will have to go through wall inside and buried in the drywall to the garage .. I bought some good flat cable Cat6 for this.

More of a PITA than anything else.

 

[looney2ns]

You say "flat cable". If you truly mean that, you'll still have problems. True Cat 6 is NOT flat.

 

[bguy]

Back when Cat6 was new, I had some quality cable that was kind of a flat U shape. They did this instead of having a plastic divider. But today, it should round.

Keep in mind, just because something is says it's cat5e/Cat6, doesn't mean it really is. And just because a company specifies the use of Cat5e, and supplies a cable, doesn't mean the cable meets the specs. Small gauge wire may work as a patch cable for data only, but should never be used for PoE.

Edit: I found the old pics of the "flat" cable. It was Belden 1872A.

 

[Kawboy12R]

Rule of thumb - never ever ever use flat or ribbon cable. It is often too thin a gauge to handle POE. You want a minimum of 24 gauge for POE. Cat 6 should be 23ga.

 

[NGL]

I went ahead and ordered standard round off amazon.. just going to cut some channels in the drywall and bury it.
Pain in the but but it is what it is.

Thanks everyone.

 

[NoloC]

Back when Cat6 was new, I had some quality cable that was kind of a flat U shape. They did this instead of having a plastic divider. But today, it should round.

Keep in mind, just because something is says it's cat5e/Cat6, doesn't mean it really is. And just because a company specifies the use of Cat5e, and supplies a cable, doesn't mean the cable meets the specs. Small gauge wire may work as a patch cable for data only, but should never be used for PoE.

Edit: I found the old pics of the "flat" cable. It was Belden 1872A.

That is Belden's Mediatwist and it is excellent cable that exceeds most others. Kind of crescent shaped. Belden tests to the highest standards.
From the data sheet:

1872A Multi-Conductor - Enhanced Category 6 Bonded-Pair Cable
CAT6+ (350MHz), 4-Bonded-Pairs, U/UTP-Unshielded, Riser-CMR, Premise Horizontal Cable, 23 AWG Solid Bare Copper Conductor, Polyolefin Insulation, Ripcord, PVC Jacket

The stuff that comes with the Alert cams is junk and no where near this spec. Although being an old Alert guy myself, I still have a couple runs of it and they are working on modern cams. Surprised the OP had this issue. But best to get rid of that cable. I think I will take my own advice and replace mine when I get home!

 

[VorlonFrog]

I went ahead and ordered standard round off amazon.. just going to cut some channels in the drywall and bury it.
Pain in the but but it is what it is.

Thanks everyone.

I hope you got solid copper wire, and not the cheaper CCA (copper-clad aluminum). It's a really easy mistake to make.

 

[58chev]

@NGL,
Can you tape some nylon twine to the existing "Flat" wire and use it as a fish?

Once pulled all the way then use the twine to fish your new CAT6 through?