Can I capture license plates and the suspect's face with the same camera?

[mikey299]

I'm thinking about getting another 5442 from Andy to capture license plates and / or to get a clear shot at a suspect's face (even before he steps foot on my property). Is this doable (day AND night) or do I have to choose between one and the other (right now I can't afford two more cameras)? What do you think is more important? I already have one 5442 set up so I can catch his face if he decides to jump over the fence and starts walking towards my house entrance - he has to come pretty close though (around 10 feet) as I have it on wide view to cover all the paths he may be coming from (it's a big yard).

I'm attaching some pictures so you can see my options. I can either mount the camera lower and zoom it to the yard entrance (where everybody walks by at first - even if he decides later to climb a fence somewhere else) or mount it higher on an outside window shelf looking down (I know face captures wont be so good if he doesn't look up), looking at faces and license plates. The distance between that window shelf and that white car is around 15 feet and the distance from that same shelf to a stop sign is around 30 feet. It's a one way street but lots of people go in the wrong direction as well (if that makes any difference). I will of course be recording 24/7 and store the recordings for at least 3 weeks so if something happens I can go back and get more details. Thanks

 

[wittaj]

You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

Now in your situation with a stop sign and street lights, you MIGHT be able to slow the shutter speed down and be able to go into color and then get both, but it would be a trial and error to see if possible.


See the LPR subforum for more details.

 

[actran]

Yeah, unlikely to capture both face and license plate with same cam as explained by @wittaj

For face, it looks like you may have enough light to run in color at night. Color will provide more details.

For license plate, you will need 2 dedicated cams if you want both front and back plates.

 

[bigredfish]

You need two cameras minimum

 

[samplenhold]

I would say that the biggest problem that newbies face is trying to do too much with one camera. Each camera in your arsenal should have a single, specific job defined. Then you pick the best camera to do that job.

While I do have a cam (B5442 Z4E) that is tasked with overview of the intersection at my house, it does pick up about 90% of the plates in daytime and about 10% of the plates at night. If the lighting is just right and the glare is not bad, I can get faces from inside the car. But that is not the norm. I do get decent shots of people walking through the intersection, but that is only if they are on the house side of the streets. See this thread.

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

Here are a couple of other threads to give you some insight on this issue:

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Ri22o]

To further the responses given above, below is a link to what I have learned on my journey and you can see the difference a purposely placed camera makes and how one camera can't do everything.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality. My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[mikey299]

Damn, I was afraid you guys would say that.
I think I'll settle for the zoomed in entrance for now and maybe later add another LPR camera. I learn something new every day, thanks.

One more question: can I use this POE extender (

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-Extender-Repeater-Ethernet-Splitter/dp/B07RQ569MF#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

)
to connect two cameras (one is 7w and the other one is 12w) from one 5e cable? My POE switch has 30w per port.

Many of you here recommend this product but some people say it's better to not use two cameras over one cable period. Even one amazon reviewer is saying this browned out his cameras.

Also the product details say that power consumption of IP camera should be less than 8W. What do you think, should I use something else or don't even try connecting two cameras over one cable?

 

[wittaj]

Yeah, it is a learning process. One that some never realize and continue to wonder why a wide angle 2.8mm lens cant read a plate. Wrong camera for that duty.

That extender should work. I have never had an issue with it.

This would be another option:

https://www.amazon.com/IPCamPower-Combiner-Splitter-Adapter-Cameras/dp/B08JS45B89/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2L78L8150U2EO&keywords=poe+splitter&qid=1697730021&sprefix=poe+splitter%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I use both. The first one is nice in that in only uses one POE port. The 2nd one is nice in that it can supply the full POE power.

 

[mikey299]

Yeah, it is a learning process. One that some never realize and continue to wonder why a wide angle 2.8mm lens cant read a plate. Wrong camera for that duty.

That extender should work. I have never had an issue with it.

This would be another option:

https://www.amazon.com/IPCamPower-Combiner-Splitter-Adapter-Cameras/dp/B08JS45B89/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2L78L8150U2EO&keywords=poe+splitter&qid=1697730021&sprefix=poe+splitter%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

I use both. The first one is nice in that in only uses one POE port. The 2nd one is nice in that it can supply the full POE power.

I guess it's easier to believe that than to realize you need 10 cameras, each for a specific duty

For dahua / loryta poe extender, does it matter if one of the two cameras I would connect it to have 12w of power?

I still have 3 free ports on my switch so it's not a problem for me. Yet

 

[wittaj]

You would be cutting it close if the camera really needs 12w. But 12w for one camera 7w for the other and 3 watts for the splitter gets you to 22watts, so you I think you would be able to do so.

But if any concern, then go with the one that will use two POE ports!

 

[tcount]

You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

Now in your situation with a stop sign and street lights, you MIGHT be able to slow the shutter speed down and be able to go into color and then get both, but it would be a trial and error to see if possible.


See the LPR subforum for more details.

I have to agree in most case will need at least 2 cameras to use LPR function. 1 for wide view and one zoom max in for LPR function. Some able to detect LPR by using third party software, but if you don't like to have anything extra you have to have at least 2 cameras one wide view so you can use line crossing detection for vehicle to activate record the LPR camera on trigger within the NVR function. At this closeup with the LPR camera none of the vehicle detection will work in night light, and you will get a bunch false motion events recording with flying bugs around when IR turn on. There is no normal street light will give enough color with that fast shutter speed at night, unless at sport stadium then there will be enough light with that shutter speed . I have Hikvison DS-2CD2387G2 and it only run at 1/60 under street light to get good color, and that camera lens sensor 1/1.2" which very good.

 

[tcount]

Damn, I was afraid you guys would say that.
I think I'll settle for the zoomed in entrance for now and maybe later add another LPR camera. I learn something new every day, thanks.

One more question: can I use this POE extender (

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-Extender-Repeater-Ethernet-Splitter/dp/B07RQ569MF#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div

)
to connect two cameras (one is 7w and the other one is 12w) from one 5e cable? My POE switch has 30w per port.

Many of you here recommend this product but some people say it's better to not use two cameras over one cable period. Even one amazon reviewer is saying this browned out his cameras.

Also the product details say that power consumption of IP camera should be less than 8W. What do you think, should I use something else or don't even try connecting two cameras over one cable?

You have POE+ switch at level 2 which give you 30w per port, but you also have to watch the total watt available for all ports on that switch. If you use up most of the ports then you may not have enough 30w for the last port. Cisco POEs switches show exactly the wattage available and uses on each port. I only have 5 cameras under my garage eave: 2 LPR for left and right, 2 color wide view for left right, 1 ptz 25x optical to zoom in events from others 2 wide view cameras . 1 doorbell, 1 backup door bell at front door. So that total 7 for house face the street. It is funny that people always thought they are watch by someone when the PTZ make noise tracking movement. I get like 95% accurate smart event notifications with Hikconnect app on the phone, I barely check the NVR much unless I need to get something on the montion events that not catch with smart events.

 

[Parley]

An interesting side note that I am seeing. There is something going on in some of these cars where a light blinks momentarily and it lights up the face of the driver. Could be a turn signal light or something else. Anyways when I am reviewing some footage, in one frame I get to see the drivers face.

 

[Ckb3]

An interesting side note that I am seeing. There is something going on in some of these cars where a light blinks momentarily and it lights up the face of the driver. Could be a turn signal light or something else. Anyways when I am reviewing some footage, in one frame I get to see the drivers face.

Probably them looking at their phone.

 

[Parley]

OK, I was looking at some video tonight and saw where a face was lit up by, I think the turn signal light in this case. She is making a righthand turn. The reason I was looking at this car, is that it has the hard to read California Retro plate. By the way I think only a certain production run had these hard to read plates. Others with the retro plate are not that hard to read.

 

[Flintstone61]

Facial Rec is not a for sure thing...Check this guy out. I think He hit the Condo 3 x.... 3 that we know about.... 1 of them he was foiled by our New exterior door crash bar locks and new Astragals that block prying.

 

[Flintstone61]

Here is an early LPR Noob capture of a Converter theft interupted by car owner( dumb luck/ plate and face) ....I was still trying to do Color /day and B7W w IR / Night on 1 camera. result was focus shifting during dusk and dawn and losing out on plate captures....had to go 24/7 Night with IR and one focus settting....getting 99.9% of plates passing by........
Gotta be dedicated to 1 Job.....dual purpose makes compromises...and missed shots.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Most LPR camera only work for watching LP(night time), but have expensive one can do wathing all , if budget is limited can use 1 LPR camera like IPC-B52IR-Z12E or IPC-B54IR-Z4E., and a normal watching camera.

 

[Parley]

I have the 5442E-Z4E and during the day it does both. At night only the license plates. I just bought a IPC-B54IR-Z4E from Andy and will replace my oldest 5442E-Z4E with it and see what the improvements are.