Church system dilemma

[sebastiantombs]

Another option would be to use ZeroTier for remote access. It, too, can be configured to load with the BI app or a dedicated shortcut can be used in a browser to access things using UI3.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Then I'd say you should decline to install the system in the first place, because you will become the defacto tech support to it.

This belongs in the book of truer words were never spoken. That's what makes a Lorex or other consumer system so attractive. Wouldn't be the first time I stepped into something I shouldn't have.

 

[looney2ns]

This belongs in the book of truer words were never spoken. That's what makes a Lorex or other consumer system so attractive. Wouldn't be the first time I stepped into something I shouldn't have.

I too speak from experience sir.

 

[cdone]

I haven't seen it mentioned here, so I'll throw out a recommendation for Synology's security station. It's not cheap, at about $35/cam for licensing, and it's missing some features I'd love to see, but it's pretty straightforward to set up, super easy to use, and has clients for PC, android, ios, web browser, and maybe mac (not sure on that one).

I installed 16 cameras at an orphanage in Haiti recording to a Synology ds1821+ a year ago, and it's been pretty hands-off since then. The only real issue we had was when a lightning strike took out a couple cameras and a PoE switch; fortunately the system is mostly fiber so the lightning didn't propagate far. I sent a couple replacement cams and a switch down and was able to get them back up and running remotely pretty easily.

BI has a lot of great features and I like the price a whole lot better, but for simplicity and (lack of) support burden on my time, I love the Synology solution.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Is the Synology license one-time, or recurring? There is a lot of value in simplification and ease of use for non-nerds. Looks like something I need to investigate.

 

[cdone]

It's a perpetual (one-time) license, and it CAN be migrated from one NAS unit to another if you have to replace your hardware for some reason. Each NAS also comes with I think 2 licenses included, so you can play with the product before you buy more licenses (the 2 built-in licenses can't be migrated, so you can't like buy 10 old NAS units off Ebay and collect the licenses).

For my personal use, I'm using the same DS1821+ unit but installed BI in a Windows VM on it instead of paying for the Synology camera licenses. It's a bit limited by CPU, and not something I'd recommend for a hands-off installation.

 

[GregoryTate]

In our Church of Love we pay great attention to videos, as a tool for spreading our faith. We mainly broadcast our sermons on YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook. Our speakers make fiery speeches about humility, forgiveness, love, and everything that Jesus Christ taught us. If someone is interested in this, I will leave a contact info Portland Pentecostal Apostolic Church | First Church Love Oregon. We do not have a permanent video surveillance system. I can't even imagine that someone would be offended by us and will try to do something wrong in our church. Our parishioners are very kind people who have good relations with everyone.

 

[tigerwillow1]

I forgot about this thread. As the initiator, I should give a status report for those who have been kind enough spending their time on tips and suggestions. Nothing technical about cameras in this post. The most recent thing I did was to carry around a laptop and IP camera on a stick to take about 50 snapshots, looking for the best placement options. Followed by temporarily clamping the camera in a bunch of places to capture sample videos. Then there was a board meeting where a very influential and persuasive church member convinced almost anybody that cameras are of no use for preventing anything because whatever they show has already happened, and the cameras are a huge violation of his and others' privacy. The project got killed. Personally, I'm upset over the time I spent, but this is overshadowed by the relief of being released from a difficult and somewhat can-of-worms project. Plus, I've learned a lot of technical info about VMSs in the process. The church is in a small and pretty peaceful community, but like almost everywhere else, the bad behavior and crime is slowly creeping in. I'm guessing there will be some future occurrence that will resurrect the project. I thank everybody who spent their time helping me out.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah cause nothing bad ever happens at a church.

What is he doing in a place of worship in a public space that invades his privacy lol.

Sorry to hear all your effort was wasted. And like you said, eventually something will happen that they wish they had a system.

 

[K7BEN]

I found a few related threads, they're pretty old and don't address my primary concern. Context is a small church, wants camera coverage for 3 buildings separated by 80 feet or so, knows I have a camera system, therefore I volunteered to get it done. From my experience with my own system I'd have no problem getting a bunch of cameras from Andy and setting them up with an NVR or BI. My concern is that after I'm unavailable to maintain that system for whatever reason, it's going to become an unusable brick. Kind of like a broken car that nobody knows how to repair. This is a seriously computer illiterate congregation. If there was something like a faulty camera cable, IP address conflict, or crashed BI system, there is nobody else who would even know where to start. Many of the members are smartphone gurus. With computers or networks, everybody but me is scared to get near it. I see three high-level approaches:

1. Professional installation with ongoing support. Probably won't fly because of the cost.
2. Dahua cameras with NVR or BI.
3. Packaged system.

They'd get the best bang for the buck with choice #2, but I can't help thinking a packaged system is the better choice because it will have a more user-friendly manual and I'm assuming the manufacturer can be called on for support and troubleshooting assistance. For starters I peeked at a Swann system manual and it looks a whole lot easier to follow and decipher than a Dahua manual. With a packaged system they have all the info in one place, instead of having to find a camera manual, NVR manual, smartPss manual, and so forth. I realize some of the obvious disadvantages of older firmware and less choice in camera specs, but a less capable working system is better than a higher capability system that isn't working.

I'm looking for any experience here that a packaged system is indeed the best way to go. Then I have to start learning about them, starting from scratch.

Our church went with 2 Dahua NVR systems. We have two main buildings and felt that two would give us some redundancy and make the install less labor intensive. The first rounds of install were done by a volunteer team. We got the easier cameras installed in the drop ceiling and even a nice PTZ on the outside. During the multiple rounds of volunteer installs, we did let the church know to budget for the more technical work to be installed by professionals. We've been very happy over all. We have a command center that is staffed on Sundays with a nice PC and 3 monitors to view all of the Cameras. Other than one of the PTZ cameras failing out of the box, we haven't had any issues. Our Dahua dealer warrantied the camera.

 

[K7BEN]

My main question is how to set up a system to be used and maintained by extreme nontechnical people. If that's covered in the wiki, could somebody please point me directly to it?

I set up the staff members and safety team lead of the church where I volunteer with the IMOU app. They can see all of the cameras and playback video, but don't have the access to delete video or make any system changes. It's a pretty intuitive app and none of them have had an issue with it.

 

[tangent]

Yeah cause nothing bad ever happens at a church.

What is he doing in a place of worship in a public space that invades his privacy lol.

You could make a case for disabling audio on the cameras pretty easily, video not so much.
The church I attended as a kid was vandalized pretty extensively by a church employee. A few years later, the youth pastor who treated everyone like they were 4 years old and was a wee bit obsessed with his hard drive encryption was arrested by the FBI.

Since then the church isn't unlocked during business hours during the week. You have to ring the doorbell.
They haven't done this yet, but you could make a case for locking the doors about 15 minutes into the service and anybody who's late or went to the parking lot has to be buzzed in (slow down a mass shooter).

 

[The Automation Guy]

Cameras are certainly something that isn't needed...... until they are and you wished you had some installed.

While most of the footage captured by a church's camera system is likely to be very mundane, it will also be extremely helpful to the church should there be some "incident", break-in, accident (even the "slip and fall" kind of stuff), or some sort of accusations being made against the church, staff, or other members. At that point the footage will be extremely valuable to the church.

So while I understand the situation, I would personally want to bring it back to the leaderships attention after a "cooling off" period of time. The whole concept that cameras are a "invasion of privacy" at a church facility is wrong and this individual is bullying people to get his way. Just because he doesn't see the value in a camera system doesn't mean there isn't one. You'll have to gently revisit this topic with an emphasis on the benefits of a camera system (ie the amount of liability that the church can protect itself against) in the future.