City Camera Install Plan - First Timer

[ockins]

Hi IPCT,

Longtime reader and just registered/introduced myself in new members area. I live in a city neighborhood in a 100+ year old brick rowhouse. My house is near an intersection and has good night time light from the city street lights. My street has regular vehicle and pedestrian traffic and I would like to better record the events out front (occasional package theft, car accident/door checking, mysterious behavior, etc.). When I bought the house years ago, I installed a Ring camera ~13' high (big mistake but I was naive and quickly realized it provides limited value in terms of identification). I have devised a few possible camera plans in the attached PDF and am seeking the community's input.

My wife has several requirements:

1. Make the cameras black in color to match the window frames I restored last summer and the new windows/doors we're installing in the fall
2. Don't have the cameras be "sore thumbs" and scream "Cameras!" when neighbors walk by
3. Use as few cameras as possible (I know, I know)

To accommodate these requirements, the "Original Plan" (first page of attached PDF) requires making custom black planter boxes and mounting them below our windows with a camera (IPC-B5442E-SE 2.8mm) in a hidden compartment inside each planter. Luckily, I enjoy woodworking on weekends. I will position them in a cross pattern at a height of 4.5 feet off the ground. My theory and testing with an 5442-ZE from Andy shows that this should yield an ability to capture faces better for Identification than a higher mounted overview camera. This also meets requirements 2 and 3 above. My primary focus area is the sidewalk in front of my house and sample east and west planter camera views are attached, as well as an 8ft overview facing east.

Should the overview camera be mounted higher for a true "Observe/Overview" role or is 8ft sufficient, given I have the planter cams at 4.5ft for Identify duty?

My concern with the "Original plan" doesn't have an overview for west to east pedestrian traffic. Do you all consider this lack of coverage an issue, given the planter cameras will pick up nearby sidewalk-level activity from the west?

I thought I could maybe remedy this with my "Panorama plan" (page 2 of PDF), that deploys a Color4K-T180 in the middle of the house around ~8' off the ground for overview duties. I wasn't a fan of the stretching/distortion I saw in Wildcat's review, but it would provide the widest coverage angle.

Instead of the panorama approach, should I add an overview cam at 12'-13' facing west above my front door? I have the 5442-ZE that I purchased that could fulfill this role and I could zoom into the right focal length for proper coverage.

Are there any other locations you all would try?

I would also like to capture any activity around my front door if anyone approaches and am open to your input if a wedge cam, "booby cam" or video doorbell is best here. I am considering mounting the IPC-E3541-AS-M 2.8mm where my large mailbox resides and installing a smaller mailbox.

My third option "Easy plan" is that if I ditch the planters and just install an overview cam at 8' facing east and then an overview cam above the door or my light at 12' facing west. I don't have the saved screen grabs from a few months ago when I tested this mounting location above the door, but I remember being disappointed with the results of facial identification since I know you can't have a dual purpose overview and detail oriented camera at the same time. This was the genesis of the "planter cam" strategy.

Cameras under consideration:

• Overview Cam: IPC-Color4K-T 2.8mm OR Color4K-T180 2.8mm mounted to wall mount around 8'
• Planter Cams: 2 x IPC-B5442E-SE 2.8mm in hidden in custombuilt planter around 4.5'
• Door/Wedge Cam: IPC-E3541-AS-M 2.8mm at shoulder height if standing at top of staircase

After this is all initially set up, I'd love to capture license plates at the intersection and more of the farther streets, but I am trying to start off small instead of doing a "big bang" approach.

Thanks for reading and your recommendations!

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCT!

 

[TonyR]

Longtime reader and just registered/introduced myself in new members area.

Strange but I don't see that post now (7/22 0811 CT) and I'm pretty sure I welcomed you and gave you a like....strange.

 

[nmagnotta]

Weird TonyR. I replied to you in that earlier post and then made a second pot of coffee and it looks to have disappeared.

 

[TonyR]

Well, at least I'm not imagining things. But this forum has very few glitches, at least in my experience, so you should have smooth sailing here.

 

[JDreaming]

Well, at least I'm not imagining things. But this forum has very few glitches, at least in my experience, so you should have smooth sailing here.

I saw the first post but without the pictures and PDF the first time. Maybe an edit or delete then re-post?

Edit: Just realized ockins make another post in the New Member Introductions sub-forum. And I mix up his post there to the one here.

 

[Mike A.]

I'm usually not one to suggest fewer cams but in your case I'm not sure you get enough added value out of the overview to make it worth it as you're planning. It's basically the same view. If you wanted to move it higher and use it as general overview for the wider area, that might be more useful.

Why go with the small bullets instead of turrets? The 5442T comes in black and might be less conspicuous and make things easier. Just as a tip if you do go with the bullets, they can be wrapped fairly easily if you want to make them black. The only part that that needs to be painted is the base and that's easy to do.

 

[actran]

@ockins For door cam, I would recommend 2MP version instead of your 5MP for better night performance: Review-IPC-E3241F-AS-M Loryta (dahua) 2mp 2.8mm mini dome. (The extra megapixels is not going to matter if the night image quality is not usable.)

Also, you may want to experiment with lower height to make sure you capture the face even when intruder is wearing baseball cap and/or has head tilt down. Or for package theft who doesn't go up to top step.

If you have the ability to add extra lighting for color night capture, that can make an additional difference.

 

[ockins]

Thanks Mike and actran.

I was wondering if it is too much overlap between the overview and planter cam positions. Maybe raise the overview more for a true picture of the street to observe then?

I was originally thinking the mini bullets would be smaller in width/height and easier to integrate in the planter boxes I am planning to build since only the lens will be visible from the side of the planter and the rest of it will be packaged inside a sealed enclosure on top with flowers above it and air vents in the bottom.

 

[Mike A.]

Yeah, given your setting I think I'd take the overview quite a bit higher to observe the overall area.

Have to see it but the turrets might not need to be in a box. I have a black one mounted at an outside corner of a window below a black shutter and virtually nobody ever notices it. Took my wife a month before she did. You see it easily if you look but just glancing it doesn't stand out. But if going with the boxes, then the bullets might be better.

 

[TonyR]

Thanks Mike and actran.

I was wondering if it is too much overlap between the overview and planter cam positions.

Maybe experiment to see...but I'm thinking the 2 pointed toward each other might cause glare from their IR's LEDs at night and if so, just swap their locations but stay pointed in same direction so they don't "see" each other at night.

Also: any chance to get the city to trim that tree a bit? It seems the phone/cable/electric utility people would be OK with it and it would help you cam views. If not, I'm thinking a "midnight ninja" could take care of it.

 

[TonyR]

BTW, I can't tell if you have a doorbell but if you do, consider a Reolink...it's the ONLY product from Reolink that I'd recommend. There's a POE version and a Wi-Fi version.

Amazon Link to Wi-Fi version I installed ==>> here

IPCT thread ==>> New Reolink Wired POE Doorbell Cam ?

My install of the Reolink doorbell here.

 

[ockins]

Ah, I hadn’t thought of IR glare crossing each other. Turrets mounted 5 or 6’ off the ground next to the windows would be way easier for me to install (no planters to build first) so I might float that idea by the Mrs.

Good idea on the trimming! My next door neighbor and I have both removed lower branches that impact parking as we wait for the annual city trimming crew to come by.

I can definitely raise the planned overview cam higher. Our current Ring is 13ft and provides the attached image. I’ll probably replicate something like with a 5442 or Color4K turret on a wall mount for a single cam overview.

 

[Cameraguy]

Hi IPCT,

Longtime reader and just registered/introduced myself in new members area. I live in a city neighborhood in a 100+ year old brick rowhouse. My house is near an intersection and has good night time light from the city street lights. My street has regular vehicle and pedestrian traffic and I would like to better record the events out front (occasional package theft, car accident/door checking, mysterious behavior, etc.). When I bought the house years ago, I installed a Ring camera ~13' high (big mistake but I was naive and quickly realized it provides limited value in terms of identification). I have devised a few possible camera plans in the attached PDF and am seeking the community's input.

My wife has several requirements:

1. Make the cameras black in color to match the window frames I restored last summer and the new windows/doors we're installing in the fall
2. Don't have the cameras be "sore thumbs" and scream "Cameras!" when neighbors walk by
3. Use as few cameras as possible (I know, I know)

To accommodate these requirements, the "Original Plan" (first page of attached PDF) requires making custom black planter boxes and mounting them below our windows with a camera (IPC-B5442E-SE 2.8mm) in a hidden compartment inside each planter. Luckily, I enjoy woodworking on weekends. I will position them in a cross pattern at a height of 4.5 feet off the ground. My theory and testing with an 5442-ZE from Andy shows that this should yield an ability to capture faces better for Identification than a higher mounted overview camera. This also meets requirements 2 and 3 above. My primary focus area is the sidewalk in front of my house and sample east and west planter camera views are attached, as well as an 8ft overview facing east.

Should the overview camera be mounted higher for a true "Observe/Overview" role or is 8ft sufficient, given I have the planter cams at 4.5ft for Identify duty?

My concern with the "Original plan" doesn't have an overview for west to east pedestrian traffic. Do you all consider this lack of coverage an issue, given the planter cameras will pick up nearby sidewalk-level activity from the west?

I thought I could maybe remedy this with my "Panorama plan" (page 2 of PDF), that deploys a Color4K-T180 in the middle of the house around ~8' off the ground for overview duties. I wasn't a fan of the stretching/distortion I saw in Wildcat's review, but it would provide the widest coverage angle.

Instead of the panorama approach, should I add an overview cam at 12'-13' facing west above my front door? I have the 5442-ZE that I purchased that could fulfill this role and I could zoom into the right focal length for proper coverage.

Are there any other locations you all would try?

I would also like to capture any activity around my front door if anyone approaches and am open to your input if a wedge cam, "booby cam" or video doorbell is best here. I am considering mounting the IPC-E3541-AS-M 2.8mm where my large mailbox resides and installing a smaller mailbox.

My third option "Easy plan" is that if I ditch the planters and just install an overview cam at 8' facing east and then an overview cam above the door or my light at 12' facing west. I don't have the saved screen grabs from a few months ago when I tested this mounting location above the door, but I remember being disappointed with the results of facial identification since I know you can't have a dual purpose overview and detail oriented camera at the same time. This was the genesis of the "planter cam" strategy.

Cameras under consideration:

• Overview Cam: IPC-Color4K-T 2.8mm OR Color4K-T180 2.8mm mounted to wall mount around 8'
• Planter Cams: 2 x IPC-B5442E-SE 2.8mm in hidden in custombuilt planter around 4.5'
• Door/Wedge Cam: IPC-E3541-AS-M 2.8mm at shoulder height if standing at top of staircase

After this is all initially set up, I'd love to capture license plates at the intersection and more of the farther streets, but I am trying to start off small instead of doing a "big bang" approach.

Thanks for reading and your recommendations!

Have you considered the Empiretech color 4k T180? Comes in black also

 

[ockins]

Yes, it’s on the second iteration of my plan for a wider overview. From what I’ve read it will give me wider view beyond just my sidewalk and street which would be nice (although the tree will obstruct it until it gets a trim).

Do you have one @Cameraguy? If so, how do you like it?

In several reviews some of the captures look a bit stretched given the aspect ratio of the 4k-T180.

 

[Cameraguy]

Yes, it’s on the second iteration of my plan for a wider overview. From what I’ve read it will give me wider view beyond just my sidewalk and street which would be nice (although the tree will obstruct it until it gets a trim).

Do you have one @Cameraguy? If so, how do you like it?

In several reviews some of the captures look a bit stretched given the aspect ratio of the 4k-T180.

I don't have one but I've tried one and I like it . Picture quality is great, fov great and I like the new web ui

 

[ockins]

After considering the advice above (apparently for the past year since I last posted), I finally ordered a 4k-T180, a Reolink POE doorbell and junction boxes to mount my existing 5442T-ZE camera and the 4k-T180.

I built a quick test rig from cinderblocks and 2x4s to evaluate mounting locations at 8, 7 and 6 feet high against my brick wall. The daylight captures are impressive with this 4k-T180 out of the box and the night time should be good after I learn more and tweak settings once the camera is installed.
I wanted to share some of my progress and reinforce the countless times I've read here that camera mounting height is critical.

My goals for the 4k-T180 are:

1. Identify people on my sidewalk in both directions as they pass the house
2. Observe traffic on the street
3. Detect\observe movement on the neighboring sidewalk

I think a mounting height of 6.5 feet for the 4k-T180 is best. What do you think?
After messing with resolutions and aspect ratios, I think the 4k-T180 is suitable for these tasks. I realize people have written it is not an "Identify" camera, but if one camera can achieve the goals instead of two at this height, it would increase the spousal approval of this project.

I am also planning to mount the 5442T-ZE pointing towards the east (left) view at 8+ feet for more of an overview and front door overlap as depicted in my original post.

At 6.5 feet high at dusk, there is an ability to still see faces as people pass, but the street traffic and opposite sidewalk view is also nicely balanced.
I think the slight angle change from 6 to 6.5 feet helps capture more of the overall street view.
I hadn't configured DST on the camera, so it is actually 8:32pm eastern in this snapshot and the newly installed LED street lamps nicely light up the scene.



At 6 feet high, there is a good ability to identify people on my sidewalk and observe traffic in the street and people movement on the neighboring sidewalk.



My second test at 7 feet high, people on my sidewalk are better captured and there is more observable area area of the street:



My first test was at 8 feet high, I was disappointed with the lack of overall view of the street, but saw faces could be captured with the 4k-T180:

 

[wittaj]

You may be one of the few with ideal location that can use a 180 for identify.

Just remember it is always easy to get over confident in the camera abilities when you can identify yourself or someone you know, especially a shot like that where you are standing still looking st yourself on your phone.

What does the image look like of a complete stranger walking by? How about at night?

If you can't freeze frame and get a clean image, then it isn't identify quality.

 

[ockins]

I agree @wittaj, the shots I posted were more basic stills and slower walking. I did walk quickly up and down the sidewalk a few times at night (9pm) with out of the box settings before disconnecting everything for the evening.
The results were slightly less than I had hoped for, but I need to try a few more nights of testing different settings to learn more.

Do you think it is still feasible to use the 180 to identify or am I asking too much at night with my lighting?

Note: I had just tweaked the splicing distance and reduced the resolution from 4096x1800 to 2880x1264 as I thought this would change the aspect ratio since items looked compressed horizontally.
For example, see the silver SUV appears normal below, but is compressed in the above shots.

This is a quick walk by from the west that resulted in a blurry capture:



This is a quick walk from the east that was a little better:

 

[wittaj]

You have a lot of light so that helps.

You need to speed the shutter up to stand the best chance.

Change it to manual and shutter at 0-8.33ms and gain at 50 and then see what it looks like.