Color4K-X 6mm FOV vs T5442T-ZE

[Alaska Country]

Would like to use the HFW-5849T1-ASE-LED (IPC-Color4K-X) bullet camera to replace a HFW5442E-Z4E bullet (set at 23mm zoom) for night use. The 5442 does OK for color at night, but would like something better.

A 5849 should produce better night images, but the focal length is too short at 3.6mm. The FOV is under a street light with some additional light supplied by a 15 watt white LED lamp house mounted. i.e. not anywhere close to stadium lighting!

Has anyone replaced the lens on the 5849 bullet to a fixed focal length lens in the range of 20 to 30MM? Overall, with more glass there would be additional light loss. Also there may not be sufficient room in the bullet for the lens to fit. However, the 1/1.2 vs 1/1.8 sensor plus 8MP vs 4MP may make up the difference and then some.

 

[digger11]

Does anybody has side by side 4K-X 6mm and T5442T-ZE and confirm me what zoom level results in same FOV?

On my IPC-T5442T-ZE (ZE) the zoom level of 1725 gives the same horizontal field of view as the IPC-Color4k-X 6 MM (4k-X).

Today I temporarily mounted my new 4k-X 6mm below the existing ZE, centered them on the same spot of our dirt road, and placed an orange cone to mark the center of their field of view. I measured the distance to that cone as 26 feet from the post the cameras were mounted to. I then placed 4 additional cones in a straight line to mark the edges of the cameras’ fields of view of the fixed focal 4k-x and the ZE zoomed all the way in at 12mm. The horizontal FOV of the 6mm at 26 ft was 27.5 ft, and the 12mm ZE was 23 ft.

I then zoomed the 5442 out until its horizontal FOV matched the 4k-x, at which point the GUI showed a zoom level of 1725.

I set out a target consisting of a Siemens Star to assess close focus, and an old license plate. The plate is 12” wide, giving a convenient way to measure actual pixel per foot numbers for the near edge (26 ft), middle (37.5 ft), and far edge (48.5 ft) of the road.

Keep in mind that the distances are from the mounting surface (post) to the target. The cameras are mounted on PFA 121/122 junction boxes mounted to the face of the post, so their lenses are a few inches closer (or in the case of the huge honking 4k-x bullet, more than a few inches closer.)

Camera	Zoom Level	MM Equivalency	PPF @ 26 ft	PPF @ 37.5 ft	PPF @ 48.5 ft	FOV @ 26 ft
IPC-T5442T-ZE	2275	12	118	89	69	23 ft
IPC-T5442T-ZE	1725	9.752	105	77	61	27.5
IPC-T5442T-ZE	0	2.7	56	41	34
IPC-Color4K-X	N/A	6	151	112	112	27.5

 

[Parley]

On my IPC-T5442T-ZE (ZE) the zoom level of 1725 gives the same horizontal field of view as the IPC-Color4k-X 6 MM (4k-X).

Today I temporarily mounted my new 4k-X 6mm below the existing ZE, centered them on the same spot of our dirt road, and placed an orange cone to mark the center of their field of view. I measured the distance to that cone as 26 feet from the post the cameras were mounted to. I then placed 4 additional cones in a straight line to mark the edges of the cameras’ fields of view of the fixed focal 4k-x and the ZE zoomed all the way in at 12mm. The horizontal FOV of the 6mm at 26 ft was 27.5 ft, and the 12mm ZE was 23 ft.

I then zoomed the 5442 out until its horizontal FOV matched the 4k-x, at which point the GUI showed a zoom level of 1725.

I set out a target consisting of a Siemens Star to assess close focus, and an old license plate. The plate is 12” wide, giving a convenient way to measure actual pixel per foot numbers for the near edge (26 ft), middle (37.5 ft), and far edge (48.5 ft) of the road.

Keep in mind that the distances are from the mounting surface (post) to the target. The cameras are mounted on PFA 121/122 junction boxes mounted to the face of the post, so their lenses are a few inches closer (or in the case of the huge honking 4k-x bullet, more than a few inches closer.)

Camera	Zoom Level	MM Equivalency	PPF @ 26 ft	PPF @ 37.5 ft	PPF @ 48.5 ft	FOV @ 26 ft
IPC-T5442T-ZE	2275	12	118	89	69	23 ft
IPC-T5442T-ZE	1725	9.752	105	77	61	27.5
IPC-T5442T-ZE	0	2.7	56	41	34
IPC-Color4K-X	N/A	6	151	112	112	27.5

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It would be interesting to do a night comparison, unless it is to dark and cold outside. One photo from each would be enough. By the way you did a fine job with the FOW test.

 

[CCTVCam]

Based on Andy's pictures, and mine calculations, 4K-X 6mm FOV would be approximate to 1900 ZOOM of 5442T-ZE:
Correct me if I'm wrong

I don't know why you're concerned with this.

The choice is simple, the 4kt in 6mm which Andy has now stopped selling because of the blur to the sides of the frame (that should be warning you it might not satisfy you unless you can accept onll the centre of the frame in focus), or the proven 5442-ze.

The 5442-ze zooms from 2.7-12mm, so whatever the equivalent is is irrelevent in any comparison. It goes both way below and above the 6mm 4kt in width due to it's zoom, so the 5442 offers you a better range and the ability to zoom in precisely (and fix) to the view you want..

If you really wnt to throw a wildcard into the mix then the new 8mp 180 degree camera offers 180 degree view but with the new eptz feature. The zoom is digital so whether at disatnce you'll get the definition you want is another matter, but if it's an appliciation where you want an overview but someone doing something nefarious is going to have to come towards the camera to eg get to your car or house, then the 180 might well fit the bill as you'll get the facial recognition when they walk up and a less defined close up but good over view if they do not. I wouldn't have bought the 180, but having seen the firmware imrpovements and eptz in action, I now consider it a winner in applications such as that I mentioned where critical infrastructure / valuables aren't located a long way away from the camera.

 

[karlocikovic]

I don't know why you're concerned with this.

The choice is simple, the 4kt in 6mm which Andy has now stopped selling because of the blur to the sides of the frame (that should be warning you it might not satisfy you unless you can accept onll the centre of the frame in focus), or the proven 5442-ze.

The 5442-ze zooms from 2.7-12mm, so whatever the equivalent is is irrelevent in any comparison. It goes both way below and above the 6mm 4kt in width due to it's zoom, so the 5442 offers you a better range and the ability to zoom in precisely (and fix) to the view you want..

If you really wnt to throw a wildcard into the mix then the new 8mp 180 degree camera offers 180 degree view but with the new eptz feature. The zoom is digital so whether at disatnce you'll get the definition you want is another matter, but if it's an appliciation where you want an overview but someone doing something nefarious is going to have to come towards the camera to eg get to your car or house, then the 180 might well fit the bill as you'll get the facial recognition when they walk up and a less defined close up but good over view if they do not. I wouldn't have bought the 180, but having seen the firmware imrpovements and eptz in action, I now consider it a winner in applications such as that I mentioned where critical infrastructure / valuables aren't located a long way away from the camera.

I'm comparing 5442T-ZE with 4K-X because I already have in that position 5442T-ZE, so my intention was to move 5442T-ZE to other location and replace current location with 4K camera with improving (or at least not scarifying) night performance (I have already one 4K-X). I am not thinking to get turret version (4K-T), as you are saying, because with bullet style I additionally want to put camera a little bit out off the wall (to avoid possible reflections of camera LEDs from wall).

And I haven't heard that 6mm 4K-X has some blur problem..?

@digger11 thank you very much for your effort posting this study, that helped me

Now I'm leaning towards bullet 5442...

 

[digger11]

It would be interesting to do a night comparison, unless it is to dark and cold outside. One photo from each would be enough. By the way you did a fine job with the FOW test.

@Parley unfortunately I can't really do a side by side night comparison because to run both cameras for my day test I had to borrow the POE for my LP Cam's IR spotlight. After the comparison I removed the ZE for relocation to another area.

With only a few actual captures from the 4k-x so far I was still able to dig up a few examples of the same vehicle caught by both the ZE and the 4k-x.
Keep in mind that I'm only just starting to dial in settings for the 4k-x.

Last night I was more interested in seeing how fast of an exposure I could run. I played around with 2ms and 3ms, but the example of the white Silverado was at 0-2.5ms, which is what I had left the camera at overnight. I was almost able to read the signage on the 4k-x image so I did go ahead and blur it a bit. The ZE capture of the same vehicle was with an exposure of 0-3ms.
I also included the capture of the Silverado from my T180. Having both the 4k-x and T180's LEDs at 100% let me drop the T180's exposure down from 0-10ms to 0-4ms last night.

For my goal of having a color night time image capable of identifying a person walking, or a vehicle driving on our access road, it looks like the 4k-x is going to be the better choice. I just wish the 4k-T came in 6mm. As someone who prefers turret cameras, the 4k-x is a beast.

 

[digger11]

One more pair of comparison pics...
My camera post with the ZE compared to the post with the 4K-X.
Fortunately I'm going more for deterrence than for subtlety.

 

[CCTVCam]

I'm comparing 5442T-ZE with 4K-X because I already have in that position 5442T-ZE, so my intention was to move 5442T-ZE to other location and replace current location with 4K camera with improving (or at least not scarifying) night performance (I have already one 4K-X). I am not thinking to get turret version (4K-T), as you are saying, because with bullet style I additionally want to put camera a little bit out off the wall (to avoid possible reflections of camera LEDs from wall).

And I haven't heard that 6mm 4K-X has some blur problem..?

@digger11 thank you very much for your effort posting this study, that helped me

Now I'm leaning towards bullet 5442...

I understand. Re-reading my post it comes across a little harsh, apologies.

As for the 4Kt, brilliant camera but as said, I believe Andy said he'd stopped selling the 6mm as there is an issue with the 6mm lens not being sharp at the edges. The other focal lengths aren't affected. I can't find the post now and stand to be corrected if he still sells the 6mm, but that's what I remember rightly or wrongly.