Comparision of ReoLink RLC-811A vs Amcrest IP8M-2796EW-AI, etc for Human/Person AI Detection and More

[looney2ns]

You need to purchase one of these : Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua) | IP Cam Talk
Then take the time to learn about the cam and use it to test each proposed location in a temporary manner to see if it fits your needs.
Use a temporary mount, such as a 5 gal bucket, rocks for ballast, and an 8' 2x4 to test locations with for a minimum of 24hrs. Put an SD card in the cam, so you can review different times of the day during the test, especially at night.

Any camera will only perform it's best if you take the time to properly set it up, and tune for each field of view. Don't just leave it on factory defaults.

Keep in mind, if you go for a 4k camera, this ups the requirements considerably, and requires more horsepower to handle it's recordings.
The 5442 turret is the king at this time for the all around workhorse.

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

@wittaj -good points. There will be white light from around front, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make. Maybe with Dahua having a 1/1.2 sensor, it will be what I need. So I'm thinking I'm going to start with one of the Dahua with the adjustable warm light. If the human and vehicle detection work as good as the Reolink's, and everything else if functional and working good, but I don't like the "warm" light around front, I will make these the cameras I use around back. Then I can pick a different camera for around front.

 

[wittaj]

@wittaj -good points. There will be white light from around front, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make. Maybe with Dahua having a 1/1.2 sensor, it will be what I need. So I'm thinking I'm going to start with one of the Dahua with the adjustable warm light. If the human and vehicle detection work as good as the Reolink's, and everything else if functional and working good, but I don't like the "warm" light around front, I will make these the cameras I use around back. Then I can pick a different camera for around front.

These Dahua's with the 1/1.2" sensor need very little light to be incredible, but they do need light. I am shocked out how little light this thing needs to produce a workable image.

If you have some house lights on outside, you will be fine.

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

Thanks everyone for all the help here!
Decisions, decisions, but I'm definitely going with a turret with a 1/1.2" sensor to start.

It's between the Hikvision and the Dahua. These models were exceedingly difficult to look up and find documentation on given my specs.
Does anyone know if you buy these gray market from a place like EmpireTech if there's any issues with using the Dahua or Hikvision apps?


Dahua - Links to the same model dh-ipc-hdw5849h

Worlds First Review - Dahua DH-IPC-HDW5849H-ASE-LED / IPC-Color4K-T - 2.8mm Turret

Ok, who's ready for not only a review BUT another World's First Review ? You heard it here first, new camera in hands and almost ready to review. Thanks as always goes to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) for providing this camera in exchange for a fair, honest, non biased, no holds barred review. I’ve...

ipcamtalk.com

https://us.dahuasecurity.com/product/8mp-night-color-2-0-network-eyeball-camera-2-8-mm/

Also sold on Amazon by EmpireTech.

Hikvision - Links to the same model DS-2CD2387G2-LSU/SL
8 MP ColorVu Audio Alarm & Strobe Light Fixed Turret Network Camera
Ultra Smart 8 MP ColorVu Fixed Turret Network Camera Support Face Capture, IP67 protection,DS-2CD2387G2-LU - IP Cam Talk Store

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1687750-REG/hikvision_ds_2cd2387g2_lsu_sl_2_8mm_ds_2cd2387g2_lsu_sl_colorvu_8mp_strobe.html

 

[sebastiantombs]

I can't speak about Hikvision, but the cameras from Andy (EmpireTech) are Dahua OEM with International version firmware. That means they are genuine Dahua and all the Dahua apps will work with them.

 

[wittaj]

Yes the apps will work, as will the Lorex or Amcrest for the Dahua OEM and the Annke for the Hikvision OEM.

Many people have come here after buying the Hikvision ColorVu series expressing their disappointment in the picture quality of the camera because they were expecting magic. It is worth repeating LOL - if you do not have ambient light outside or do not like the white LED lights on, you are better off with cameras that can see infrared. ColorVu type cameras cannot see infrared, so you can't add infrared later.

Further, it's onboard white LED lights are not as bright as the 4K/X.

There seems to be more posts started here with complaints about the Hik version at night than the 4K/X. If you want a full color, the 4K/X is a better choice.

Or maybe the people that buy the Hikvision version are naive and think they are magic and the ones that buy the 4K/X are educated as to the proper placement for this type of camera LOL...

Here is link to a thread of many that shows the disappointment of many thinking a ColorVu camera was magic and could defy physics. Full Color type cameras are great if you have light, but will be horrible if you do not have enough light.

There was someone just this past week that bought one for his AirBnB and was disappointed it needs light and would interfere with the home ambiance at night.

Initial review of the DS-2CD2347G2-L(U) ColorVu 2.0 IP camera.

What about adding some additional landscaping lighting - this cam is awesome and with minimal light will do great. External lightning will have new power cable and new installation, cost lot of time and extra money. Not everyone like light at night. So select a good cam is very important...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

Today had both the Reolink RLC-811A and Amcrest IP8M-2796EW-AI side by side pointed out of my garage for a couple of hours. The Reolink accurately picked up 23 vehicles with no false alarms, and the Amcrest picked up just 7 vehicles! That's an enormous amount of misses for the Amcrest (made by Dahua)! Amcrest does have IVS where Reolink doesn't but from experimenting with Hikvision IVS, at least with my older Hikvision cameras, I'd have shadows trigger line crossing, so good AI seems much more important.

I just tested 2-way audio on both cameras. The Amcrest is super tinny sounding. Listening to the environment is fine with the Reolink, but when using talk, everything feeds/echos back through the microphone on the cameras as there's clearly no echo cancellation whatsoever.

After spending some more going thru this with you, I think we need to look again at your testing.

In addition to the focal length differences between the two, it looks like you simply stuck these on the garage and pointed them out to the street?

Were each one of these event triggers something you WANT to be notified of when away, like 23 vehicles came onto your property that you want to be notified of, or were these cars passing by?

That makes a difference. Maybe set the cameras side-by-side and set the reo focal length to match what you see with the Amcrest and then point it down to where the center of the image is the area you would want to be notified of and see if your results improve.

If you dial the cameras in to just the areas you want to be notified and not try to do too much with one view, you will get better results.



The two-way audio on any of these cameras, whether it be Dahua or Hikvision will be super tiny sounding. If you want loud, you need to add an external to it.

You are now looking at a Hik camera with a strobe. They are useless and the perp will not see the flashing light unless they are looking right at the camera. These lights are like as powerful as a phone flashlight.

Plus the flashing light will impact the exposure and image.

Motion activated strobe lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with lights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL. I assure you this was an external speaker, not the piddly one in the camera.

https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/whatsapp-video-2020-07-28-at-7-23-08-pm-mp4.73970/

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

Awesome video lol! I think if it's 3am perpetrators are going to think everyone is sleeping and not paying attention, but audio could be a game changer. Not sure why he said "PLEASE" when he told them to leave the area lol. This is why I'd like at least some ability to talk back, tinny sounding or not, though the audio in this video sounds great with an external speaker. I've always that the tinny audio in most IP cameras is from the encoding, not from the speakers. I wonder how the Dahua is with an external speaker.

I'm going to have to figure out the mounting points and detection range with people to avoid people just walking by on the sidewalk - that's going to be difficult, but I haven't had a good camera where I can combine IVS and human / vehicle detection before.

 

[wittaj]

That is why you cannot have ONE camera do too much.

I have an overview that sees everything and then another camera with a field of view to notify me when something is in that field of view so that I do not get every John walking by on the sidewalk...

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

@wittaj & @looney2ns
I'm trying to decide between the 5442 and 4K/X then. In the front, there are 3 100W led fixtures, and no more than 20 feet distance that I need to cover for ID purposes. With what you said above @wittaj with that 1/1.2 sensor and some lights in front of the building, things should be good. I know 5442 with the IR would give me great b/w. Considering reading about ID and the importance of color, the unknown that I have would be if the 1/1.2 sensor with NO LEDs enabled and with the front lights on would offer equal or better ID than the 5442 with or without IR. The other thing here is the human and vehicle detection, which after reading the review on the other thread we were chatting on, the 4K/X will have SMD 3.0 at some point. I saw where a lot of people were wanting a camera with 1/1.2 with IR - that would be great.

In the rear, the human detection is important, along with getting the lighting right. I don't care about lights coming on with a trigger, or remaining on, other than wasted electricity. In that review of the 4K/X, it looked like the white LED range was pretty poor, but then some other people posted some pretty great color pics of their entire back yards lit up in color at night with just the camera LEDs.

@looney2ns regarding the horsepower that you mentioned required for 4k, I was thinking about setting the stream 1 resolution to 2k. That won't make any difference in the light required obviously, but it would the horsepower.

I think the plan might still be to pull the trigger on the 4K/X. I'll test that out in the front, and if it doesn't work out there, I'll place those in the back, and 5442s for up front.

One other thing - does anyone know if I can have multiple IVSs setup in such a way that I can:
1. Trigger both push notifications and recoring on human / vehicle detection for one region
2. Trigger only recording for another region

The purpose of this would be to only record activity in the street in front of the property, but if a person or car enters the property, then trigger a push.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Reducing the effective resolution will require more horsepower in the camera. It has to convert the 4K video down to 2K for you.

 

[wittaj]

I think 3 100W fixtures on the front of the home with the 4X looking out to try to IDENTIFY within 20 feet should be good.

If you are using substreams, the horsepower needed isn't as great.

Regarding your questions, it depends on your VMS.

Trigger both push notifications and recording on human / vehicle detection for one region - yes that is possible with either an SD card in the camera or a Dahua OEM NVR. If you use BI, you can pull the ONVIF triggers as well into BI to be alerted with notifications.

Trigger only recording for another region - with an SD card or Dahua OEM NVR, you can set up IVS rules for these as well and not be notified, only triggered and recorded. If you use BI, at the moment you cannot tell BI to do one thing with one IVS rule and something else with another IVS rule - they all come into BI as IVS triggers (at the moment). But what you do in BI is then use its motion detection (which is very good) to simply trigger for any motion but not alert you and only be alerted with the camera IVS triggers.


Downrezing a camera does not work - It is still using the 8 million pixels - the camera doesn't change the "pixel resolution screen" on the camera when you go from 8MP to 2MP. The sensor still needs 4 times the light going from 8MP to 2MP, so the native 2MP camera will result in a better image at night. The firmware will make some algorithm attempt at downrezing it, but it could be a complete crap image or a somewhat usable image, but if there is a concern that the 4MP isn't performing or wouldn't perform well at night, then it is better to go with the 2MP.

I have a 8MP and 2MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor and the picture quality is quite different between the two and the 2MP kicks it's butt at night.

 

[IAmWatchingYou!]

@wittaj Thanks for the info on IVS. Thinking it through a little more, I'd like to have one IVS rule to have a region that I get push notifications from and recording (close to the building) and another region where I just get recording (out in the street / sidewalk area). It sounds like that's do-able with with onboard camera software.

I'll be using local micro SD card for at least the next 6-9 months. I've had Blue Iris for at least 10 years, but haven't dedicated a PC to it. I'll be looking to pick something out hopefully small, discreet, and low power to run it on.