Couple of questions if I may,

[xplorer]

I've read and read and tried different things and I gotta say I'm still not clear on exactly what DS triggers on.

Things have changed and until now the thought it might be all "update" related escaped me.

I believe I started at 5.5.3.4, updated to 5.5.3.7 skipping a couple? and now on 5.5.4.0.

The very first IP camera I bought is one of the cheaper versions (camera 1 = HFW4431R-Z), hacked English FW yeah knew that going in didn't care as it just an overview for a field I can't see from here.

When I first tried DS it would trigger on my walking or driving into view marking its window in BI with the "lighting bolt" icon.

Now no it doesn't trigger, I have and had it set to trigger on ONVIF and via IVS rules. At least that is what I assumed it was doing based on what I witnessed using a T5442T for an example (camera 2). Cam 2 is up here plenty of traffic by it so I use it for testing different set ups.

In the T5442T when a car or person crosses a tripwire at that point the lighting bolt icon would appear at the top of its window. That is when DS would start its thing = version 5.5.3.4.

Then I updated to 5.5.3.7 and then DS appeared to be triggered the moment a person or car moved into the cameras view well before hitting any IVS rule. I lost all triggering for camera 1 at about that same time. That change seem to effect cameras 2,3 and 4. (cameras 3 and 4 are a couple of different versions however both are 2231) Cameras 2,3,4 are from andy, cam 1 is not.

I do not use MD so DS shouldn't trigger at that point? if I turn IVS off nothing happens cameras 2 thru 4 so reinforces the idea they trigger in IVS rule/s.

Camera 1 I can watch IVS get triggered via its WEB GUI "live view" but zero reaction in BI and or DS. DS will however trigger now and then on a car back there that hasn't moved in months? I have ignore static objects selected for all cams. Camera on a tree so wind effect it, point is DS seems to be seeing something? not MD it isn't enabled and not IVS as the car isn't covered by a rule. It probably doesn't have a lot of processing power so I only using one rule.

I'm going to go back to 5.5.3.4 for testing sure but kinda lost in the what happens "when" or "if" aspect of DS and or BI.

"ONVIF source" for cams 2 3 and 4 = 00000, cam 1 =000. In the ODM under "Events" cam 1 doesn't list anything the other 3 do. That said it does work I've seen it work. Trying to keep it doing so consistently has proven difficult and in part due to the distance to the camera and back, long walk hardly and action.

Seems like everything boils down to "more testing" LOL!!

Trying to include enough info and in as clear order as possible but Let me guess, clear as mud right?!!

But on the upside, at least I get a Giraffe!!

Great example as this image is from a few minutes ago. No motion detection enabled whatsoever and it is no where near the IVS rule. It'll do that but when the deer trigger the IVS rule nothing happens.
It sees them, it puts a box around em, the tripwire flashes red when they cross it but BI and DS have no reaction.

What am I missing?

Later when my DW is done working I'll download and roll back to 5.5.3.4.

 

[wittaj]

Many folks have seen issues with IVS and ONVIF triggers since DeepStack was integrated.

IIRC, it has to do with it now being an external trigger instead of an ONVIF trigger. I got mine working again by redoing the find/inspect for the cameras that went wonky and then making sure for the triggers I have them set to External as well.

The newest additions of BI have allowed more flexibility in zones for DeepStack; however, that has impacted some instances of IVS and DS working together. IIRC I think I created a zone A that was the whole screen so that when it was then triggered by the IVS for DS, then DS had a zone to work with.

Of course YMMV and some haven't had issues, and others probably found different solutions.

 

[xplorer]

Many folks have seen issues with IVS and ONVIF triggers since DeepStack was integrated.

IIRC, it has to do with it now being an external trigger instead of an ONVIF trigger. I got mine working again by redoing the find/inspect for the cameras that went wonky and then making sure for the triggers I have them set to External as well.

The newest additions of BI have allowed more flexibility in zones for DeepStack; however, that has impacted some instances of IVS and DS working together. IIRC I think I created a zone A that was the whole screen so that when it was then triggered by the IVS for DS, then DS had a zone to work with.

Of course YMMV and some haven't had issues, and others probably found different solutions.

Yes I read about that that ONVIF should be listed when IVS was the trigger but most get External, I get external for all four. I have trigger under alerts set to ONVIF and External.
I did experiment with zones, using A for example its area cut down to reduce DS detection times. The AtoB in A or in B or both kinda thing too.

I was going for the simplest I hoped for possible, IVS trigger DS and report what found. No need for MD or to/from in zones moves this far this size etc etc!

I have installed the camera by model and by find/inspect both ways, I've been running with F/I. I find it odd that it is the only camera I have that is listed by brand/model when installing them! It doesn't appear to make any difference which way I go, I go with find/inspect as I do the same for the other 3 anyway.

I will when the weather warms back up replace that camera but it does work with DS I had it then lost it.

DS calls the deer sheep or dog, calling them deer would be nice but simply naming them one or the other and reporting same consistently is fine with me.

I just don't want to use motion detection, heck it even triggers on the seconds rolling by on the time overlay.

 

[xplorer]

This image is from "Stored".



I was just back there a little bit ago. It sees me, 85% confidence that it is a "person" (it is correct!), I have the min confidence set to 19% (trying anything to get a hit) and nothing in alerts.
Shouldn't have it confirmed and marked that? I use the same settings in other cameras that it does just that. Higher than min confidence is reported in alerts folder.

 

[xplorer]

You probably already know this, but for the sake of clarity... analyzing a clip using Testing and Tuning -> Analyze with DeepStack only tells you what DS can identify in a clip. It doesn't provide information on what it recognized when the camera triggered. That's you're giraffe business... make sure giraffe isn't in the confirm box of the AI settings. If you want it to confirm an alert when it recognizes a dog, if you analyze with DS and it shows up as a cow, you might want to make sure both dog and cow are in the confirm box... kind of thing. That's about as much use out of it that I can see.

You should use the Deepstack tab of the Status window to evaluate what it recognized at the time - a log. Information on Understanding the DeepStack tab via Status button -> DeepStack tab can be found in the BI Support forum Onboarding section. About halfway down the page. There's a YT video on the BI Support Channel also.

And you probably know this too, but separate camera trigger from DS in you're mind - DS is only a traffic cop for alerts. It decides go/no go status for anything that happens after the camera is triggered - Trigger settings drive what's recorded. Before DS, the game was fine tuning the motion detector to reduce false alerts. DS was implemented to use object recognition, instead of object detection to determine if the event is eligible for alert actions (notifications, etc.) - i.e., reduce false alerts.

Understanding what is going on with DS will help in where to focus your efforts troubleshooting. It requires a bit of a deep dive - but if you want to understand what "exactly what DS triggers on", that'd be my recommendation. At least that's the only way I could figure to approach it. YMMV

Yes that helps reinforces what I believed to be the way it worked, at times I'd see some inconsistencies that make me question it though!

I do use the Status window for DS and its log ect for evaluating what it recognized and when, problem is when nothing happens for one of them and you know a rule was triggered it doesn't aid in trouble shooting much.

No trigger for the giraffe or confirmation just find it comical what DS thinks it "sees" at times. Thinks it sees Cups, my truck and the end of a ladder sticking off the roof of my trailer it marked as "phone" now and then. Correct more than wrong so..

Think I may just have to enable MD on that camera and work with it until I get a chance to just replace that one. Definitely didn't buy it with BI nor DS in mind.

 

[xplorer]

Just noticed this... in my experience if the camera is triggering on the timestamp overlay, it's a detector issue.

Best practices are to disable the live overlays in the video tab, and use the camera's overlays instead. If you have them disabled and they are still causing motion triggers, if it were me, I'd be focusing on fine tuning the Trigger/Motion Detector. If you have them enabled, disable them in BI and see if it still triggers. There's a butt load of good information in BI's YT channel on fine tuning...

I was attempting to run with BI's MD that is where the time overlay is problematic. Looking for more fine tuning over what the camera offers.

Problem with that camera is it's lens plus distance to the action, need MD set fairly low to trigger. Deer in this case blend in very well with the background.
I know what I'm trying to do with it is near impossible for it, looking for a happy medium and more so with any human that walks in over wildlife that might appear.

Triggering on the time overlay effects all 4 cameras to varying degree, its real bad with this one what can result in holding it in an "occupied" state.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I always use the camera time stamp and not the BI overlay. If it's in a detection zone simply block it out of the detection zone. No more triggers when the seconds change that way.

 

[xplorer]

What I do is... Turn off live overlay's in BI, turn ON overlays in the camera (browser -> camera IP address -> camera UI). That way the overlay is recorded with the BVR. You can always playback the clip with BI's overlays enabled in the player.

I am using the cameras time overlay not the overlay provided in BI, I did try BI's overlay but didn't get timestamps on recorded video so I went back to the cameras overlay. And yes recorded video includes the time overlay that way.

I am using the MD built into the camera not MD provided in BI as per your suggestion in previous post.

As far as motion triggers... you know that you can run clips through the detector, right? That means you can take a recorded event and test new detector settings on the clip to see if your changes help or not.

You are talking about via the right click menu on a recorded clip then "testing and tuning" and then "analyze with motion detector" correct?

If yes maybe I'm not doing it right but doesn't appear to work for motion detection run from the within the camera itself, probably only works for MD included in BI?

I only run MD in the one camera that is the main subject here. I only noticed the fact that the time overlay was triggering MD while using BI's MD due to the fact I had it set to its lightest setting as per suggestion I read in another thread. Suggestion that when using DS to set it at it's Min object size/min contrast both as DS would handle things beyond that. I was not taking into consideration the camera does not include advanced AI so that plan was a non starter for this camera.

The other 3 cameras I do not use MD at all but set MD the same just to see if they would be effected too, yes they are by no where near as bad.

This also started before I installed and began working with DS. The distance to the likely event I wanted to get triggers for is pretty far away from the camera 100+F and the target blend in with the background nearly perfectly. Yes I know I was asking the most from the one camera that offers little if any hope of doing that! Camera is zoomed to say 3/4 of its limit.

I will say this if I could use BI's MD instead of the cameras MD, not have it trigger on the seconds in the timestamp rolling along? I'd have better odds of a positive result. It almost works but once I zone in on that critical setup the time overlay holds DS in an Occupied state, triggers just often enough to do it. So when I do get a actual trigger event I'm looking for DS just reports "Occupied" doing nothing more with the scene. So no definitive result of my test other than the "time" screws me up.

I want it to trigger on humans and cars trucks sure, that camera has better odds of seeing wildlife though. The difference in those two "detection wise" are miles apart.

I even went as far as masking the timestamp, killed that idea as I couldn't locate events via time line so no help either.

One thing I have figured out after we talked is it is MD in this camera that triggers events for DS not IVS. I still haven't figure out why yet, haven't looked into it more. Might be as simple as I'm not getting the correct "ONVIF source" for it yet, might be as simple as there isn't one.

I do have them sending me emails with pictures and texts to my phone when different events at each camera occur, that is a step in the right direction!!

 

[xplorer]

Yes. Turn off overlays and then analyze with motion detector first though. Playback is what BI sees as motion.



That's not what I intended to suggest. I'm not even sure what it means. I was suggesting to turn off live overlays in BI and only use the camera overlay. You confirmed that's what you already do.

For the overlay trigger issue.. In your shoes, I would fix the problem not solve the problem and follow sebastiantombs advice above - mask it out and be done with it. That's me.

Analyze motion doesn't work unless motion sensor is enabled in BI for a given camera during playback! Something I didn't consider, needs to be enabled even if not when a vid was recorded. And I apologize I was calling it MD instead of MS for BI.

I use the MD that is built into the camera. No MS, zones or object detection etc in BI and it triggers DS. I can not set it sensitive enough to get wildlife yet not suffer constant false triggers as things are now. It does trigger set sensitive enough for people/vehicles and not get em. Same result using MD or MS either one so I just use MD for now until I move the camera to the shed, will result in 35ish feet forward, and 8-10 feet closer to the ground and no longer effected by the wind that wasn't an issue couple weeks ago (trees cleared for power line).

I thank you guys for your input, very helpful.