Dahua AI Capable NVRs

[houmi]

I am chatting with Andy with Empire Tech to possibly upgrade my NVR (Lite series), so it can do some AI capable things like SMD+ which I can't do on my Cameras other than basic Intrusion/Trip Wire and was wondering what are people using lately ? Is WizSense (I assume what Andy sells) enough for home usage and basic AI modes ? I noticed WizMind Series are not in the US yet (are those banned ?) -- Also is there a comparison chart between WizSense, WizMind and AcuPick ?

I thought hard about setting up a Blue Iris or Frigate but I didn't want to setup yet another PC or VM in Unraid, and I like NVRs as a whole as they are generally low powered and I do like the WebUI, DMSS/SmartPSS Lite & P2P option... I know about Tailscale/Zerotier/VPS+Wireguard options but prefer that since I am behind CGNAT and it's easy to let my parents check out my cameras w/o doing tech support for them.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[wittaj]

Keep in mind that WizSense, Wizmind, and Acupick are simply marketing terms.

Acupick is kinda useless in a home environment and is geared towards commercial and businesses. Like you click on a face and it will show you the cameras that person was seen on - good for tracking a lost kid in a store with hundreds of people. Do I really need that capability to see if the dude in the front of my house was seen on the back camera - I can just look. So most have it turned off in order to keep the capacity where they want it. Plus you need a camera and NVR capable of acupick or it won't work.

WizSense is geared towards the smaller installations (and usually cheaper cameras) and WizMind is geared towards businesses (usually more expensive cameras) - so things like people counting, loitering, etc. are important to them (although some of the 5442 (54IR) series has those as well).

You need to look at each NVR and figure out which one you need based on the number of cameras you have and how many you want to do AI with. So you may have to double the number of channels for the NVR than you have number of cameras to do what you want.

Having the NVR do the AI instead of the camera cripples the capacity of the NVR and some parameters by half.

Most here have found that SMD+ is no better than plain ole motion detection. Either use AI IVS or the MD from the camera.

For example the 8 channel NVR8CH-8P-2AI is only capable of doing AI on 4 cameras, not all 8. So if you have 6 cameras you want the NVR to do AI on, the 8 channel NVR won't cut it.

And if you use the AI in the NVR, then the bandwidth is cut tremendously.






And keep in mind that a BI/PC can be just as low powered as an NVR. Plenty of people here have proven it with kilowatt meters of their NVR and PC/switch combo. An NVR is basically a stripped down computer after all....

 

[bigredfish]

The 5xxx WizSense series are the current go-to

WizSense Series - Dahua International

WizSense Series

www.dahuasecurity.com

Specifically the 16 channel

NVR5216-16P-EI - Dahua International

NVR5216-16P-EI

www.dahuasecurity.com

I recommend the version (P) with built in PoE switch which makes lots of things simpler and adds a layer of security not unlike a VLAN.
You don’t HAVE to use the NVR PoE ports, or use just some and have other cameras on external switches. So it’s more versatile.

Wizmind series is not really available but you won’t miss anything given current firmware. The real benefit is Video Metadata by NVR.

SMD and SMD+ while they have their uses, are generally inferior to IVS and Video MetaData.
Your camera is best at using IVS, newer models work better than older ones, but it’s far less prone to false alerts than MD/SMD (SMD is simply an AI overlay on old fashioned MD)
What models are your cameras?

Accupick is a feature of some 5xxx and WizMind NVRs. I believe it must work in conjunction with cameras that also have that feature? Not certain.
For a normal home environment it’s not very useful. It attempts to pick out similar objects (persons) across channels. It may have some use in larger commercial settings (think malls or large plants)

The real benefit of the 5xxx series NVR is being able to use for instance IVS on your camera and Face Detection/Recognition on the same channel with the NVR. Or SMD on NVR and IVS on the camera. (Face detection/recognition is not easily accomplished but theoretically possible)

 

[bigredfish]

As @wittaj mentions, enabling AI on the recorder cuts incoming bandwidth capacity by 40-50%

I’m personally waiting on the Wizmind series to update the FW (supposedly working on it) as to me the big upgrade is VMD (video metadata) by recorder. I’m currently using an older circa 2017 5xxx

If the camera has the capability it’s best to do it there vs on the NVR, and all of my cameras have the AI features I need

 

[Timokreon]

I have the 608 series NVR. It is supposedly getting a firmware upgrade in January/February, that will make it even better than it already is.
One thing I personally would make sure to do, if you do go the NVR route, get a NVR with more camera capacity than you think you're going to need.

I previously had a 4ks2e NVR which was great, but I wanted more than 16 cameras for my system. Problem with the 32 channel NVR, as stated above, if you start using NVR AI, then you lose the 50% bandwidth capacity. Which is one of the biggest reasons I went with the 608, it has plenty of bandwidth.

 

[houmi]

Thank you @wittaj , I also thought they are probably marketing terms, based on what you said it does make sense more to go WizSense & 2x Channels, I have 6 Cameras, so 16/32 seem the way to go then.

Yeah I thought so as well for NVR AI being crippled if it does AI on top. Right now with AI IVS/MD from my cameras I get false positives quite a bit for birds, leaves, car lights, and figured having human/vehicle detection might be useful down the road. I know you can change the bounding boxes but it's a bit hectic.

For BI/PC I may do it down the road but right now I felt having the NVR was the easiest route. I have built PCs like Unraid NAS or top of the line gaming PCs, so building it isn't an issue or buying a pre-made PC, I just need the peace of mind right now.

-------

Thank you @bigredfish , I will have to go POE anyways, as it is what I have right now... N41C2P NVR + 6 N42BJ62 cameras.
Ultimately I'd like to switch the NVR to just power the POE cameras, record internally but use my router to assign IPs via DHCP or I'd set them because I find it cumbersome to go to NVR every time and click on Cameras one at a time to set settings.

My cameras do IVS/MD but I get false positives so was looking for something beefer NVR wise, since I don't want to change the Cameras (just got the system + Cameras a few months ago from HikVision I had for 10+ years). I saw I could get WizMind on Ebay or via Chinese Websites but they want you to order 2. Also it seemed the FW were kind of old as you mentioned.

-------

Thank you @Timokreon , what are the 608 series ? Are those the WizMind ? Where did you purchase it from if I may ask ? Surprised they are behind FW wise.
Also if you buy a foreign version of Dahua, do you have to use World to US plug adapters ?

 

[bigredfish]

MD and IVS are very different and two very separate technologies.

You shouldn’t be running MD at all. That’s where your false alerts are coming from.

Current IVS is very good and I rarely get a false alert even running on average 4-5 IVS rules per camera.

I only run MD in one small protected area on one camera and only at night. MD is 20 year old technology that has almost no value for outside cameras

 

[houmi]

Does your IVS have Human/Motor Vehicle detection ? how do you get around of animals, birds not tripping the alarm ?

 

[wittaj]

Yes IVS just triggers on human or vehicle, and the 5442(54IR) S3 model has a box to trigger on animals if you want.

I get ZERO false alarms with using IVS.

As we have mentioned, stay away from MD/SMD if you have IVS capabilities.

If you use SMD you will still get the false triggers.

Take a look at this thread:

Thread 'Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?'

Feb 13, 2021

It has come to my attention that certain Dahua cameras come with built in AI that distinguishes between human & cars. I was unaware of this. Well, always saw the AI word used in the reviews but never really thought about it because I thought it was a Dahua NVR integration only.
I am currently using Deepstack AI / OnGuard to help with alerts based on human detection. OnGuard has MQTT and URL triggering to other camera capabilities which is critical to my ongoing home security concerns which connects to my Home Assitant and things to give immediate notifications.
Not sure how camera AI...

• Holbs
• Replies: 104
• Forum: Dahua

• 

 

[houmi]

Thanks, I'll check that thread. I don't have the Human or Vehicle box like some of the screenshots I have seen here for IVS setup, so must be a limitation of my cameras. The Bounding boxes do work decent most of the time.

 

[Timokreon]

Thank you @wittaj , I also thought they are probably marketing terms, based on what you said it does make sense more to go WizSense & 2x Channels, I have 6 Cameras, so 16/32 seem the way to go then.

Yeah I thought so as well for NVR AI being crippled if it does AI on top. Right now with AI IVS/MD from my cameras I get false positives quite a bit for birds, leaves, car lights, and figured having human/vehicle detection might be useful down the road. I know you can change the bounding boxes but it's a bit hectic.

For BI/PC I may do it down the road but right now I felt having the NVR was the easiest route. I have built PCs like Unraid NAS or top of the line gaming PCs, so building it isn't an issue or buying a pre-made PC, I just need the peace of mind right now.

-------

Thank you @bigredfish , I will have to go POE anyways, as it is what I have right now... N41C2P NVR + 6 N42BJ62 cameras.
Ultimately I'd like to switch the NVR to just power the POE cameras, record internally but use my router to assign IPs via DHCP or I'd set them because I find it cumbersome to go to NVR every time and click on Cameras one at a time to set settings.

My cameras do IVS/MD but I get false positives so was looking for something beefer NVR wise, since I don't want to change the Cameras (just got the system + Cameras a few months ago from HikVision I had for 10+ years). I saw I could get WizMind on Ebay or via Chinese Websites but they want you to order 2. Also it seemed the FW were kind of old as you mentioned.

-------

Thank you @Timokreon , what are the 608 series ? Are those the WizMind ? Where did you purchase it from if I may ask ? Surprised they are behind FW wise.
Also if you buy a foreign version of Dahua, do you have to use World to US plug adapters ?

This is the NVR that I have 608NVR . Better NVR overall, BUT... much more expensive, and it doesn't have POE, which means having to purchase a separate POE.
The 5 series works for a lot of people as red stated.

Are you going to end up wanting to capture license plates and all that fun? haha..

 

[bigredfish]

Thanks, I'll check that thread. I don't have the Human or Vehicle box like some of the screenshots I have seen here for IVS setup, so must be a limitation of my cameras. The Bounding boxes do work decent most of the time.

View attachment 210864

Most of my cameras have a Human/Vehicle filter and a few have the newish Animal filter. I have 2 that do not have the filters but still rarely get a false alert.

Is that the DMSS app interface?

Login to the actual individual camera GUI to make all settings and changes. Don;t try and manage settings on a mobile app.
You may not even be seeing ( In know you're not) all possible camera settings as the mobile app isnt designed to accomadate the dozens of settings on various cameras.

ALL settings should be done on the camera itself, Not the NVR, Not the app

 

[houmi]

his is the NVR that I have 608NVR . Better NVR overall, BUT... much more expensive, and it doesn't have POE, which means having to purchase a separate POE.
The 5 series works for a lot of people as red stated.

Are you going to end up wanting to capture license plates and all that fun? haha..

Woah that's a nice NVR! Though you'd think for 1K+ they would have the latest firmware. I was wondering if an NVR like that would have 32 Lan Ports but makes sense for it not to have POE and rely on a Switch.

For LPR, I have played a little bit with my Driveway cameras shutter speed and they work ok if the car gets close to the house, but anything down the street or further which are at angle are no go, especially that it rains a lot here in WA and tbh I have given up on that.

Most of my cameras have a Human/Vehicle filter and a few have the newish Animal filter. I have 2 that do not have the filters but still rarely get a false alert.

Is that the DMSS app interface?

Login to the actual individual camera GUI to make all settings and changes. Don;t try and manage settings on a mobile app.
You may not even be seeing ( In know you're not) all possible camera settings as the mobile app isnt designed to accomadate the dozens of settings on various cameras.

ALL settings should be done on the camera itself, Not the NVR, Not the app

It was the Web UI of the NVR. It is the same on the Camera

 

[bigredfish]

No its not the same.

Dont use the NVR web GUI to make changes to your camera settings. Make the settings and changes ON the Camera. Weird shit can happen when you use the NVR GUI instead of the camera GUI

 

[houmi]

I ended up ordering this one from Andy, thanks everyone for your help on this!

EmpireTech NVR32CH-8XI 32 Channels 2U 8HDDs Network Video Recorder

Support multiple decoding formats | Max. decoding capability: 32 × 1080p@30 fps | Supports AcuPick with up to 32 channels | AI by Recorder | AI by Camera | Supports N+M cluster | Raid 0/1/5/6/10, ISCSI | Allows for HDD hot swapping | Supports EPTZ | One-click Arming & Disarming | Security...

empiretech01.com