Who uses Dahua AI capable cameras? Reliable AI for triggering events? Pro's/con's?

[Holbs]

It has come to my attention that certain Dahua cameras come with built in AI that distinguishes between human & cars. I was unaware of this. Well, always saw the AI word used in the reviews but never really thought about it because I thought it was a Dahua NVR integration only.
I am currently using Deepstack AI / OnGuard to help with alerts based on human detection. OnGuard has MQTT and URL triggering to other camera capabilities which is critical to my ongoing home security concerns which connects to my Home Assitant and things to give immediate notifications.
Not sure how camera AI notifies other than sending email.
I also assume you have to have IVS setup with tripwires and intrusion zones. The camera AI determines if tree or human, and then..... what happens? I am using Blue Iris. Would a ONVIF alert be sent from camera to Blue Iris?
And what of the reliabity / accuracy? Such a dinky camera Would change my world if I can figure out how camera AI does it's magic.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I'm using vehicle and human detection on a 5442T-AS that covers my front entry along with the upper driveway. Distance from the camera to the driveway is in the range of 60 to 100 feet depending on the angles. The camera's primary duty is the front entry and it's a 3.6mm lens to put things in perspective. Humans can be kind of small at 60 feet and even more so at 100 feet. Vehicles are large enough even further out than 100 feet.

I have multiple intrusion boxes and a couple of trip lines as well. The camera rarely misses a human, usually at night, and never misses a vehicle. It does send an ONVIF trigger to BI very reliably. I'm not into home automation so I can't comment on MQTT integration.

I also have similar a similar setup on a 3241T-ZAS that monitors the lower driveway. Distance to the camera is about 50 feet minus the zoom it's set at. Again, it always picks up humans and vehicles and always sends an ONVIF alert.

I have clones of those cameras also running BI motion detection and I have found that the IVS trips are much less prone to falsing. We have a lot of trees that can trigger the BI motion that don't seem to bother the IVS triggers. The same is true of headlight triggers, BI gets quite a few while the IVS seems pretty much immune to them. Both cameras switch to B&W since there really isn't enough light to get color at night unless I drop the shutter speed down to 1/60 and that results in too much ghosting and blur.

As with everything YMMV.

 

[wittaj]

I am using the AI features within by Dahua cams to trigger events in my Blue Iris system. Yes, you set up IVS triggers and check the appropriate box for humans or vehicles and let the camera do its thing. Then in Blue Iris, you have it pull the triggers from ONVIF and then turn off motion detection in Blue Iris for that camera and tell it to trigger based on camera ONVIF.

Or set up a clone if you want to also have BI do motion triggering OR keep the motion detection box checked and get motion from BI and the camera. Depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

Using the camera CPU for AI instead of BI motion detection then means that the BI computer CPU usage can drop a little. YMMV - probably more of an impact on an older unit than a newer unit.

Knock on wood, these AI check boxes are spot on in all of my cameras that have them! Has made scrubbing alerts in BI a breeze because even with how great motion detection is in BI, there are a few situations where I cannot knock out false triggers, especially at night with headlights bouncing off a hill for example. Trying to eliminate that and then I miss a real trigger. The camera AI doesn't even flinch at attempting to think the headlight bounce is a trigger, or motion lights turning on.

Again, a lot depends on the location and field of view and speed of objects at nighttime. Vehicles at night can be problematic if the field of view is too tight because the camera needs to be able to identify the object, assess if it is a vehicle, and then trigger the camera, so there are instances where that might be an issue based on the specifics of what the camera is looking at. I have tested it with my PTZ and if zoomed in too much, a faster vehicle can pass by without being tracked. But if zoomed out and in my testing it caught every vehicle dark and light at night.

And because I have a few "dumb" cameras without AI lol (so I have to use BI motion detection) and have some overlap with those and AI cams, I have been able to confirm every false and true trigger from those dumb cams were accurately triggered or not triggered in my camera with AI. To the point that I cannot see myself buying a new camera without that. YMMV. Just for redundancy, I will probably still run a few cams with BI motion detection just in case an AI camera didn't pick something up. Plus I run 24/7 so I can always go back.

I can then have Blue Iris send me an alert or a text with the picture or have it do something else like MQTT or call up a PTZ preset, make a phone call, run a program, send an email, send a text, or a variety of other commands.

The true test....I have found the AI of the cameras to work even in a freakin blizzard....imagine how much the CPU would be maxing out sending all the snow pictures for analysis to Deepstack LOL. My non-AI cams in BI were triggering all night. This picture was ran through Deepstack (without the IVS or red lines on it) and it failed to recognize a person in the picture, but the camera AI did. This pic says it all and the video had the red box over it even in complete white out on the screen:



I have been looking at one of the AI add-ons for my system to bring AI to my non-AI cameras, but the maxing out of the BI CPU I know would be an issue for me, and seeing all the expected issues people have with implementing it, I decided I will just upgrade my cams to AI cams as I get the time and money. While some of that third party stuff is cool like tagging was it a dog or a bear, I don't need all that fancy stuff (now for LPR, yes I am using the tools created in those threads). If my camera triggers BI to tag an alert for human or vehicle and BI can accomplish what I need by way of a text or email or whatever, that is sufficient for my needs.

 

[bigredfish]

I'm using it on a SD6AL445XA-HNR-IR PTZ to track humans at the entrance to our neighborhood. Even with a busy 4 lane street, it only picks up humans and does it well day and night.

It also locks on target and doesn't get distracted by something else. Check the clip with the guy in the hat and the kids on bikes passing by

And most impressive is the clip with the guy hanging on to the back of the trash truck. It ignores the truck but tracks the dude hanging on the back.

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[wittaj]

^Yeah my PTZ does that with the garbage truck and employee hanging off the back at dark 4am!

It would be awesome for someone to test this with one of the 3rd party Deepstack add-ons!

 

[Holbs]

What does "Global Setup" do under the IVS menu selection?

 

[wittaj]

That allows you to calibrate the camera. So you take a known distance item, like a yard stick, and you stick it 3 places horizontal and one vertical (or maybe reversed) and then draw a line on top of the item and it calibrates the camera for depth perception of objects ( a person at 60 feet will be smaller than a person at 10 feet) and gives it a frame of reference as to sizing.

I only had to do that for one of my cameras. The rest of them work fine without it. YMMV

 

[remsta]

I'm using it on a SD6AL445XA-HNR-IR PTZ to track humans at the entrance to our neighborhood. Even with a busy 4 lane street, it only picks up humans and does it well day and night.

It also locks on target and doesn't get distracted by something else. Check the clip with the guy in the hat and the kids on bikes passing by

And most impressive is the clip with the guy hanging on to the back of the trash truck. It ignores the truck but tracks the dude hanging on the back.

So this is incredible... wow! Are there any cameras that are more in a general residential consumer price range that are similar? We are about to purchase 7 cameras for our new house and I would love a PTZ one for the front garden but not something that is $2.5k

Cheers!

 

[wittaj]

@remsta - Get this one from @EMPIRETECANDY a member on this forum (if you buy somewhere else it probably will not have autotrack). This is the best "consumer" PTZ below $600 and has the best MP/sensor combo unless you go for a more expensive one with a larger sensor.

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-SD49225XA-HNR-Starlight-Network-Tracking/dp/B081RJJQT4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ptz&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1613012875&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

 

[Burner]

@remsta - Get this one from @EMPIRETECANDY a member on this forum (if you buy somewhere else it probably will not have autotrack). This is the best "consumer" PTZ below $600 and has the best MP/sensor combo unless you go for a more expensive one with a larger sensor.

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-SD49225XA-HNR-Starlight-Network-Tracking/dp/B081RJJQT4/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=ptz&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1613012875&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1

wittaj, got a question for yah... I recently got a dahua ptz cam and setup a "Tour" with "Auto Tracking". Works pretty well but it would have been nice if they would allow combining different functions into one. Anyway, my question is, is it possible to trigger alerts within BI from a "Tour" made up of multiple "Preset1,2,3" images. I have several different camera views within the single "Tour" and feel it would be nice if it would send me a phone msg like my other cameras do when a tripwire goes off etc. I had a similar problem with a camera that has built in PIR, so I just used the BI motion detection. Any thoughts... FYI I'm not getting back up on the ladder and hooking up an alarm to the camera. I'm getting to old for that sheesh!!

 

[looney2ns]

wittaj, got a question for yah... I recently got a dahua ptz cam and setup a "Tour" with "Auto Tracking". Works pretty well but it would have been nice if they would allow combining different functions into one. Anyway, my question is, is it possible to trigger alerts within BI from a "Tour" made up of multiple "Preset1,2,3" images. I have several different camera views within the single "Tour" and feel it would be nice if it would send me a phone msg like my other cameras do when a tripwire goes off etc. I had a similar problem with a camera that has built in PIR, so I just used the BI motion detection. Any thoughts... FYI I'm not getting back up on the ladder and hooking up an alarm to the camera. I'm getting to old for that sheesh!!

It's almost always better to have several fixed cameras to cover the area needed. As the odds are high that the PTZ will be looking in the wrong direction when something happens.
That said, you can use another camera to trigger the move the ptz to where you want it to point.

 

[Burner]

That's a good idea my friend! I'll look into that, thank you!! I guess I could clone the ptz perhaps but I would have to have one clone for each Preset of the Tour. Nah to much work... Actually, I do have cameras setup already pointing in the needed areas. That way I zoom in on the area and kick in the Auto Tracking as well. Great!!

 

[remsta]

I am using the AI features within by Dahua cams to trigger events in my Blue Iris system. Yes, you set up IVS triggers and check the appropriate box for humans or vehicles and let the camera do its thing. Then in Blue Iris, you have it pull the triggers from ONVIF and then turn off motion detection in Blue Iris for that camera and tell it to trigger based on camera ONVIF.

Are there any instructions anywhere on the best settings in the Camera and also in Blue Iris. We just installed 7 cameras and they are recording continuously because cars keep driving up and down the street - where do I set this up, in BI or in the Camera?

Under Smart motion Detection in the camera I set enable but under video detection it is also enabled.

 

[wittaj]

Are there any instructions anywhere on the best settings in the Camera and also in Blue Iris. We just installed 7 cameras and they are recording continuously because cars keep driving up and down the street - where do I set this up, in BI or in the Camera?

Under Smart motion Detection in the camera I set enable but under video detection it is also enabled.

No instructions per say as we are not the intended user of Dahua and HIK cameras - we are purchasing Hik and Dahua cams, but we are not their intended audience to sell to.

They do not cater to the "consumer" market - their target audience is professional installers, so we are considered "prosumer" and we are fortunate to get our hands on these types of cameras instead of consumer grade junk and not having to go thru professional installers to get Dahua and HIK OEM gear. Now the downside is we get them at a discount and without manuals and support and thus are on our own to figure it out. We are fortunate a forum like this exists to help with that.

Turn off Smart Motion Detection as that is looking at the whole image and why you are getting all those triggers.

Set it up in the IVS rules. Check human and/or vehicle. Draw IVS lines (tripwire or intrusion) to cover the areas you want the camera to trigger. So if you do not want cars driving on the street triggering the cameras, then do not draw IVS rules in the road.

And then in Blue Iris do not use Motion Detection and instead pull ONVIF triggers.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Wittaj beat me to it.

 

[remsta]

Thanks @wittaj, you have been a lifesaver! I will give that a shot.

 

[looney2ns]

You should of started your own thread, instead of high jacking this one.
The spec sheet does not show any AI capabilities in the cameras or the NVR. So, if the NVR does, you've received a bonus in a firmware upgrade apparently.
That's a relatively low end system, so I wouldn't expect much. Try it and see. Nothing to lose.

https://us.dahuasecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Datasheet_4MP_8ch_Networking_Security_Systems_N484E62S_v001_004.pdf

 

[JL-F1]

I find when I have it set to humans only the IVS AI is much more accurate than Deepstack alone

I am using a 5442 IVS intrusion alert with Blue Iris, using ONVIF alerts, no motion in BI

Curious if Blue Iris has any way of showing that it was a human or a car that set off the alert, without adding Deepstack into the mix?

 

[NielK]

@Holbs I have a set of 5442s (3 x bullet, 4 x turret). The camera AI has been really good in most circumstances and it works well with BlueIris.
Out front I used to get many false alarms from headlights at night and spiders when using BI motion detection. Using the Dahua IVS with an intrusion zone and tripwires, that's all gone and only people and cars now trigger - and it's reliable. The camera sends ONVIF alerts to BI for recording (disable BI motion detection and tell it to trigger on camera alerts).

If you use Internet Exporer or a compatible (eg Edge in IE mode), the camera will show the detection zones and when they are triggered - good for testing. And if you have an SD Card in the camera, the playback will show how the camera was triggered. For testing the camera AI, I've found it useful to clone the camera in BI then use camera alerting on the "master" and traditional BI motion detection on the "clone". Good for comparing the performance of the two methods of motion detection.

For one camera looking out from the back door: BI had 157 alerts in the last 24 hours, the camera AI had 8 - all the times that a person went out that way. The BI alerts were mainly spiders, moving shadows, birds and the 8 person events.

The downside? Out back, I want to detect animals (eg badgers, deer, foxes, herons) coming into the garden as well as people. People detection works well but I just haven't been able to get the AI to detect animals reliably. Using the camera UI I can see animals crossing the tripwires ... and nothing. It's as if you can't ever turn off the human/vehicle matching, even if you untick the boxes. (I have done the global setup and calibration with a set of yardsticks.)

 

[Holbs]

@Holbs I have a set of 5442s (3 x bullet, 4 x turret). The camera AI has been really good in most circumstances and it works well with BlueIris.
Out front I used to get many false alarms from headlights at night and spiders when using BI motion detection. Using the Dahua IVS with an intrusion zone and tripwires, that's all gone and only people and cars now trigger - and it's reliable. The camera sends ONVIF alerts to BI for recording (disable BI motion detection and tell it to trigger on camera alerts).

If you use Internet Exporer or a compatible (eg Edge in IE mode), the camera will show the detection zones and when they are triggered - good for testing. And if you have an SD Card in the camera, the playback will show how the camera was triggered. For testing the camera AI, I've found it useful to clone the camera in BI then use camera alerting on the "master" and traditional BI motion detection on the "clone". Good for comparing the performance of the two methods of motion detection.

For one camera looking out from the back door: BI had 157 alerts in the last 24 hours, the camera AI had 8 - all the times that a person went out that way. The BI alerts were mainly spiders, moving shadows, birds and the 8 person events.

The downside? Out back, I want to detect animals (eg badgers, deer, foxes, herons) coming into the garden as well as people. People detection works well but I just haven't been able to get the AI to detect animals reliably. Using the camera UI I can see animals crossing the tripwires ... and nothing. It's as if you can't ever turn off the human/vehicle matching, even if you untick the boxes. (I have done the global setup and calibration with a set of yardsticks.)

I have a 32mm 5442 Varifocal, 6mm 5442 fixed, SD4 series PTZ, 2.8mm 5442.... 2 more 5231's (I have 2 x 6mm 5442's to swap these out). 5442 crazy out front and backyard! Some are 24/7 color...some are b/w at night.
These 5442's have the AI that I need. Since I original posted this message...I am 100% using Dahua AI, no more Deepstack. For one, Deepstack is great if you have a non-AI camera (some in-house/garage cameras will be using Deepstack). Another, Deepstack spikes my CPU during rain or snowstorm enough to cause bottleneck trigger delays.
There is a firmware issue that is being fixed for the 5442 series cameras in regard to the now-I-believe-is-fixed Smart IR. Soon to be fixed will be the Human AI that detects humans more than it currently triggers at dogs & cats.