Dahua Camera for Loitering Detection?

[DaveInFL]

Hello, I'm looking for feedback from Dahua camera owners that have used Loitering Detection. I'm interested in getting a PTZ that has the feature but would settle for a fixed camera.

My current setup consists of 15 Dahua cameras but they are about 3 years old and none of them offer Loitering Detection. I plan to connect the new camera to my existing Dahua NVR5816-R-4KS2.

Here's the physical setup:
There is an automated gate at the entrance to my lot. The Area of Interest (AOI) is a 35 by 50 foot rectangle in front of the gate. The camera will be mounted on a light pole at a height of about 25 feet. The distance from the camera to the center of the AOI is about 40 feet so the camera will be looking downward at and angle of approximately 40 degrees. The AOI is very well lit so illumination should not be an issue. I could mount the camera lower but if I get a PTZ, I want to keep it high enough so that it can also be used to view other areas of the lot when desired.

Given this setup, I want to be alerted (probably via the Alarm Out function) when a person or persons are loitering in the AOI.

I would define loitering as a person(s) who is stationary or moving about within the AOI for more than 15 seconds OR has entered and exited the area of interest 2 or more times in a relatively short time period e.g. twice in the last 120 seconds. I don't know if Loitering Detection supports the second requirement or if another AI feature could be be used?

Normal behavior would be a person(s) walks into the AOI, opens the gate and walks thru the gate OR a delivery person walks into the AOI and then walks out within 15 seconds.

Any person(s) hanging out or repeatedly moving in and out of the AOI is considered suspicious activity and I want to be alerted. I don't want to be alerted by vehicles, vehicle lights, emergency vehicle lights, shadows, bugs, birds, cats, coyotes, rain, etc.

I realize I'm probably asking for the impossible but maybe it can be done?

I watched the videos below and searched the Dahua Wiki but they don't provide enough information to make a decision.

Thanks for any real world feedback and camera suggestions.

 

[MikeLud1]

What model Dahua cameras you have, you might be able to upgrade the firmware to have Loitering Detection. If they are 5442 the newest firmware does have Loitering Detection

 

[DaveInFL]

What model Dahua cameras you have, you might be able to upgrade the firmware to have Loitering Detection. If they are 5442 the newest firmware does have Loitering Detection

The models are IPC-HFW5231R-ZE and IPC-HFW5231E-Z5E. To the best of my knowledge they don't support Loitering Detection.

 

[MikeLud1]

The models are IPC-HFW5231R-ZE and IPC-HFW5231E-Z5E. To the best of my knowledge they don't support Loitering Detection.

Are you on the latest firmware in the below link? If not try it, it might have Loitering Detection

Latest new IPC-HDW5231R-ZE IPC-HX5X3X-Rhea_MultiLang_PN_Stream3_V2.800.0000018.0.R.210707

 

[DaveInFL]

Are you on the latest firmware in the below link? If not try it, it might have Loitering Detection

Latest new IPC-HDW5231R-ZE IPC-HX5X3X-Rhea_MultiLang_PN_Stream3_V2.800.0000018.0.R.210707

No, the last time I upgraded the cameras was over a year ago. I wonder if anyone can confirm whether the newest version supports Loitering Detection. I can try it myself the next time I get to the lot - maybe I'll get lucky.

 

[DaveInFL]

Are you on the latest firmware in the below link? If not try it, it might have Loitering Detection

Latest new IPC-HDW5231R-ZE IPC-HX5X3X-Rhea_MultiLang_PN_Stream3_V2.800.0000018.0.R.210707

I upgraded one of my IPC-HFW5231E-Z5E cameras and can definitely confirm that the referenced firmware upgrade DOES NOT support "Loitering Detection".

Based on the response to this thread, it appears to be a feature that very few Users implement?

If anyone has any experience with this feature I would really like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,

DaveInFL

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Just double check with @Wildcat_1 and our engineer.
The SD5A425XA-HNR can support loitering detection and crowd Gathering Detection

 

[ljw2k]

I have the SD5A425XA-HNR and can confirm it has Loitering Detection.

 

[Wildcat_1]

Thanks for tagging me in @EMPIRETECANDY. Yep as I mentioned above, has Loitering + Crowd Gathering as well. Pair those features with a Face Recognition camera and can be incredibly powerful for surveillance of problem areas in wider rollouts (city installs, densely populated areas, events etc). Large parking lots or car dealer lots etc also a good application. While fixed cam for spotter overwatch (using PTZ) I’ll always advocate for, don’t forget about multiple PTZ configs as I’ve mentioned before.

If you rollout configs with multi cams such as multi PTZs and use activation you can use 1 PTZ to identify the target rule and remain focused while the 2nd PTZ is called to a preset covering the area and starts capturing faces and other metadata for ID etc.

Of course you can always make this work in your own home or small business config if you want but really useful in the large installs I mention. There are some other options that may assist to as I mention below.

Now, regarding your ask above @DaveInFL you can use the PTZ’s no issue but you also have other options you can use or pair with in the newer fixed cams (Color4K-X, T5842T-ZE, Dual Lens etc etc) where you can set intrusion zones and use the new ‘inside’ option to define Human target (so you benefit from AI and reduce false hits) in a given zone for x seconds trips on cam audible alarm + record etc. While on the topic of fixed cams, most of the newer VOLT based cams (including the 5442) feature Loitering Detection & Crowd Gathering as well and can benefit from the 'inside' rule sub-option for IVS on the newer FW (generally FW 8-28 and above but again depends on FW and cam). The beauty of the 'inside' IVS option is that you can use that with the target filtering (Human or Motor Vehicle) I mentioned unlike Loitering where you only have to set a duration BUT no target filter and Crowd Gathering which gives you duration (of the gathering) and sensitivity (of determining a crowd of people) etc therefore the 'inside' option is more flexible. Again roll it out as part of a larger config as I mentioned above and with multi cams (PTZ, fixed, panoramic, face recognition etc) and you can dial this in further.

I wanted to address your 2nd requirement too, 'target returning to an area in x period of time', thats harder to do if you truly want to 'watch' and trigger on the 'same' target. You can do that utilizing the higher end Face Recognition cams (some of the high end PTZ's I reviewed before (and others I use) that then allow you to not only ID, but build a Face ID database (on cam if you wish) then alert and 'watch for' a given target matching the face and other metadata. This then could be used to say if target 1 (matching this face ID print or more general metadata) visits and or returns to an area, alarm, record, trip external devices etc but depending on your budget and target requirements the ROI can be steep and value proposition low. Just wanted to cover all options so you had it

Regardless, hopefully this gives you ideas on what to do both with multi PTZ, or multi cam (spotter, overwatch with fixed and PTZ), special application cams (Face Recognition) as well as other options utilizing the new 'inside' IVS rule 'action'.

Feel free to reach out direct with any questions.
HTH

 

[DaveInFL]

Wildcat_1, I really appreciate the detailed response!

It sounds like the SD5A425XA-HNR might do the job. I already have an IPC-HFW5231R-ZE mounted on the pole that is used as an overview cam.

As described in my original post, the PTZ will be looking downward at the target area. One thing I'm concerned about is if the human detection features will work correctly for my physical setup?

Another thing I'm concerned about is false alerts. This camera will be mounted outside so it won't be useful to get alerts whenever it rains or a small animal wonders into the target area.

I realize every setup is unique and I'll just have to try it out but any real-world feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

DaveInFL

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Another thing I'm concerned about is false alerts. This camera will be mounted outside so it won't be useful to get alerts whenever it rains or a small animal wonders into the target area. ----- New SMD make the false alarms bit less than the old cams, but sure we can't say totally no false. It's working bit good now.