dahua ip camera, nvr and recommendations and placement

[ipcam_padawan]

G'day from down under!
am new to the forum and to world of cctv cameras. Have been reading cliff's notes and other posts in the forums...
Am thinking of starting with small but scalable/reliable system for my single storey home.
NOTE: in Australia Dahua and Hikvision is common, whilst the oem brands empiretech, lortya, amcrest is rare...

see specs below
1x NVR (DHI-NVR4108HS-8P-AI/ANZ)
2x IP turret cameras (DH-IPC-HDW3466EMP-S-AUS) to cover front entrance and driveway/garage
1x video intercom kit with touch panel (KTP01L-AUS) to cover front door (allow mrs to view the camera and front door from the touch panel)
Note: will plan to put additional cameras in the future to cover the rear yard, fence line and court yard

***
01-which is the better NVR?
NVR4108HS-8P-AI/ANZ or NVR4104HS-P-8KS2/L

02-which is the better camera?
DH-IPC-HDW3666EMP-S-AUS or DH-IPC-HDW3466EMP-S-AUS for low light conditions?
NOTE: Distance between the garage and road is about 6Meters and there is streetlight across the road

03-which is the better intercom kit
KTP01L-AUS or KTP03

04-have received quotes from my local security installers and they seem to be pushing Dahua systems as there is less false positive compared to HikVision?
e.g. 4-camera system with NVR (DH-IPC-HDW3666EMP-S-AUS + NVR4104HS-P-4KS2/L)?
what are your thoughts with this system?


many thanks in advance for your advice and opinions

 

[wittaj]

Neither one of those cameras will perform well in low light conditions - they are budget cameras not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.

Further what is your goal at 6meters - to DETECT or IDENTIFY? You will not IDENTIFY at 6 meters with those cameras.

You need a camera that has the MP/sensor in the green range:



See this thread that lists (with purchase links from @EMPIRETECANDY a well trusted vendor here that sells to AUS) the most commonly recommended cameras based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the best value in terms of price and performance day and night:

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[bigredfish]

This is the better/more powerful of the 2 NVrs
NVR4108HS-8P-AI/ANZ

 

[ipcam_padawan]

Thank you very much - wittaj and bigredfish for your feedback

the focal length in camera selection is an eye opener for me.

 

[wittaj]

Thank you very much - wittaj and bigredfish for your feedback

the focal length in camera selection is an eye opener for me.

The focal length usually is an eye opener and hard for people to fathom how a 2MP with a focal length set to IDENTIFY at 10 meters will produce a better IDENTIFY image than an 8MP 2.8mm focal length camera at that same distance. And many come here or we know people that never grasp that concept even when shown proof!

We were all there once and chased MP and believed that the wide angle camera was the best thing in the world.

Then something happens and all you can tell the police is what time it happened.

2.8mm fixed lens have a place - for wide angle and 4 meters out. Beyond that a different camera focal length is needed.

 

[ipcam_padawan]

please excuse my naive questions
-Any ideas why manufacturers like Dahua and Hikvision don't make camera's with the right size sensors for the focal length for beyond 4MP. It is 2023/2024, technology has improved, and silicon has miniaturized?
-Why the technology (sensors, image quality, etc) for the 4MP camera's has not improved or moved forward significantly? have noticed the 6MP and 8MP cameras been getting bit more attention by the manufacturers.

 

[wittaj]

please excuse my naive questions
-Any ideas why manufacturers like Dahua and Hikvision don't make camera's with the right size sensors for the focal length for beyond 4MP. It is 2023/2024, technology has improved, and silicon has miniaturized?
-Why the technology (sensors, image quality, etc) for the 4MP camera's has not improved or moved forward significantly? have noticed the 6MP and 8MP cameras been getting bit more attention by the manufacturers.

I believe it comes down to sensors and optics impacting image and along with camera size - look at the 4K camera sizes on the right size 1/1.2" sensor and how shallow their focus is - imagine how much worse the image would be and how much larger the camera would be on an optically zoomed in setting.

Oh but you are wrong, the 5442 series (introduced in 2018) which is 4MP on the ideal 1/1.8" sensor has made significant jumps in improvements with the new 2023 releases (S3) and a newer chipset. Keep in mind even before the newest version of the 5442, the previous 5442 was still considered the "king of cameras" to many here, and the improvements made with the newest chipset firmly plants it atop the most highly recommended camera.

Mini-Review - 5442-Z4E-S3 AKA B54IR-Z4E S3 - Replacement to the 5442-Z4E

As many of us are aware, Dahua decided to keep the same model numbers of some of their most popular models like the 5442-Z12E and the 5442 series cameras, but they have been updated with a newer GUI and specs that on paper show better than the previous version as was discussed in this thread...

ipcamtalk.com

Mini-Review - 5442-ZE-S3 AKA T54IR-ZE-S3 - Replacement to 5442-ZE

As many of us are aware, Dahua decided to keep the same model numbers of some of their most popular models like the 5442-Z12E and the 5442 series cameras, but they have been updated with a newer GUI and specs that on paper show better than the previous version as was discussed in this thread...

ipcamtalk.com

The general public chases MP over performance (because they are naïve and don't know any better and chase MP), so manufacturers "give" them what they want. Many of these same 6MP and 8MP cameras you refer to are placed on the 1/2.8" sensor that is designed for 2MP, which means at night the 8MP needs over 4 times the amount of light to produce the same brightness as the 2MP. But the general public doesn't understand that and simply wants more MP falsely assuming more MP means better.

Those in the know and put their trust in these recognize that 4MP is the current overall sweet spot for surveillance cameras.

 

[steve1225]

NVR4108HS-8P-AI/ANZ or NVR4104HS-P-8KS2/L

first one is much newer and have more power..

DH-IPC-HDW3666EMP-S-AUS or DH-IPC-HDW3466EMP-S-AUS for low light conditions?

These are very strange models created for Australia/Oceania Market. Don't exists outside this area..
There are replacement to normal 3x41 models From Europe/US...

Both 6 and 8Mpx will not give You good low light performance with that small 1/2.7" and 1/2.8" sensors..
For low light solution look for Dahua 5442 (IR light) or 5449 (white light) - they are 4Mpx with much bigger 1/1.8" sensor..

NOTE: Distance between the garage and road is about 6Meters and there is streetlight across the road

For that proposed 2.8mm optics are to wide.. Objects at 6meters will be small and You will lose face features..
3.8mm or 6mm will be better.. or best will be cameras with varifocal (zoom range 2.8 - 12mm)..

03-which is the better intercom kit
KTP01L-AUS or KTP03

heads down KTP01...
intercom in KTP03 is a joke..

04-have received quotes from my local security installers and they seem to be pushing Dahua systems as there is less false positive compared to HikVision?

In my many years experience COMPARABLE lines from Dahua have better video / features / firmware / AI quality comparing to HIK.

e.g. 4-camera system with NVR (DH-IPC-HDW3666EMP-S-AUS + NVR4104HS-P-4KS2/L)?
what are your thoughts with this system?

Typical system sold for villa installation by amateurs
High megapixel cameras from cheap lines with small sensors and 2.8mm very wide (>100 degree) optics.
First two will give You bad night performance (static image will be mostly good, but anything in motion will be very blurry).
Last (2.8mm optics) will give wide area coverage with very small objects (people/cars) at distance, hard to identify.

Try to look about 5442 cameras.. if budget allow use varifocal models. if not, try to use 3.6 or 6mm optics..

 

[ipcam_padawan]

Thanks steve1225

 

[ipcam_padawan]

For Australia, the NVR DHI-NVR5208-8P-4KS2E is discontinued and has been replaced by DHI-NVR4208HS-8P-AI/ANZ

is the DHI-NVR4208HS-8P-AI/ANZ any good?

 

[steve1225]

is the DHI-NVR4208HS-8P-AI/ANZ any good?

This is the first one NVR you asked in first post..
yes, it is better comparing to old 4ks2 line and it look like 4xxx-EI sold in rest of the World as actual lower-line AI model..

for up to 8 cam installation is ok, if more is needed then I will select from 5xxx-EI (-AI in Australia?) line (2x more power)..

ps. I don't understand why Dahua is using different model numbers for Australia area comparing to rest of the world? And why is creating that strange 3x66 line of cams, which use INPROPER last 2 digits (the technology and optics coded as xx66 is non existing now)..

 

[wittaj]

This is the first one NVR you asked in first post..
yes, it is better comparing to old 4ks2 line and it look like 4xxx-EI sold in rest of the World as actual lower-line AI model..

for up to 8 cam installation is ok, if more is needed then I will select from 5xxx-EI (-AI in Australia?) line (2x more power)..

ps. I don't understand why Dahua is using different model numbers for Australia area comparing to rest of the world? And why is creating that strange 3x66 line of cams, which use INPROPER last 2 digits (the technology and optics coded as xx66 is non existing now)..

Dahua does indeed use different model numbers based on the region.

For example, 5442-ZE is the international model number.

In the USA, the model number for what we know as the 5442-ZE is N45FJ6Z.

And then of course all the resellers of Dahua OEM and they have to use a different model number.

 

[ipcam_padawan]

fyi - I don't plan to have more than 8 cameras + ip intercom.

DHI-NVR5208-8P-4KS2E is "Pro series" network recorder
NVR4108HS-8P-AI/ANZ / NVR5216-16P-AI/ANZ is "Wizsense series" network recorder

from the links below NVR5216-16P-AI/ANZ looks to be equivalent to 5xxx-E
NVR5216-16P-AI/ANZ - Dahua Oceania (dahuasecurity.com)
NVR4108HS-8P-AI/ANZ - Dahua Oceania (dahuasecurity.com)

 

[steve1225]

DHI-NVR5208-8P-4KS2E is "Pro series" network recorder
NVR4108HS-8P-AI/ANZ / NVR5216-16P-AI/ANZ is "Wizsense series" network recorder

Don't look at 4ks2 series - they are old (2016 or 2017?) and deprecated by Dahua..
actual models are -EI (called -AI in Australia)..
4xxx-AI is lower line, 5xxx-AI higher (2x CPU/GPU/SOC power + AcuSense support)..

In both lines you have different models with different count of channels and disks plus models with/without POE switch...