Dahua: Model reccomendation

[Bartel]

Hello,

I know that there is much to find here already, and I did, but I find it hard to make a choice on this, due to the many possibilities.

After comparing brands (Hikvision, ...), Dahua seems suitable for me.

Top level requirement: MJPEG stream to integrate in my home-automation system (Loxone), secondary stream (to record on my Synology NAS). Some open API (HTTP) calls to control the camera its features via my home-automation system.
Nice to haves: Smart Detection, Low light capabilities (whether that's with or without IR), POE
Location: Wall mounted under the overhang of the roof, so best to have it IP66/67 but vandal proof IK(10) is not necessary.
Purpose: Monitor all 4 sides of the house (entrance at the front / garage on the left / drive at the right / garden at the back). See screenshots

Type: Dome (because of the appearance)

My first thought was to cover this with two(?) PTZ domes, but due to the price (at least 350USD for a decent one), this option drops, I'm afraid.
As it is quite some ground to cover, I am looking now to use multiple fixed domes. But the product range is enormous.
So I expect to cover the regions of interest with a total of 4 cameras. Ideal price would be around 100 USD per camera (so around 400 USD total budget)

I nayr his review of the IPC-HDW5231R-Z, which is very appealing.
But then I saw the thread of the IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS, but both look similar to me? What I do find is strange, that I cannot find this exact model on the official site, but IPC-HDBW5231R-Z seems quite similar?

I think a varifocal model is recommended as it offers both (wide)view (ground cover) VS target-zoom(people/cars) (with some IVS-Rules)?

Which model would you recommend, and why?

Thank you very much.
Greets.

Bartel

 

[nayr]

When you cant find that exact same model number on Dahua's website its a Chinese Market model thats made of plastic and comes with hacked firmware..

The 4431R is nothing like the 5231R; ones a 4MP that sux nuts, the other is a 2MP Starlight that kicks ass.. buy the 5231R; if you read the first post its very clear thats the one you need.

Varifocals do not zoom on activity.. your going to set the focus/zoom once and its going to stay there until you take that camera down and put it someplace else.. if you want this capability buy a PTZ

 

[hmjgriffon]

Hello,

I know that there is much to find here already, and I did, but I find it hard to make a choice on this, due to the many possibilities.

After comparing brands (Hikvision, ...), Dahua seems suitable for me.

Top level requirement: MJPEG stream to integrate in my home-automation system (Loxone), secondary stream (to record on my Synology NAS). Some open API (HTTP) calls to control the camera its features via my home-automation system.
Nice to haves: Smart Detection, Low light capabilities (whether that's with or without IR), POE
Location: Wall mounted under the overhang of the roof, so best to have it IP66/67 but vandal proof IK(10) is not necessary.
Purpose: Monitor all 4 sides of the house (entrance at the front / garage on the left / drive at the right / garden at the back). See screenshots
View attachment 14472 View attachment 14473 View attachment 14474
Type: Dome (because of the appearance)

My first thought was to cover this with two(?) PTZ domes, but due to the price (at least 350USD for a decent one), this option drops, I'm afraid.
As it is quite some ground to cover, I am looking now to use multiple fixed domes. But the product range is enormous.
So I expect to cover the regions of interest with a total of 4 cameras. Ideal price would be around 100 USD per camera (so around 400 USD total budget)

I nayr his review of the IPC-HDW5231R-Z, which is very appealing.
But then I saw the thread of the IPC-HDBW4431R-ZS, but both look similar to me? What I do find is strange, that I cannot find this exact model on the official site, but IPC-HDBW5231R-Z seems quite similar?

I think a varifocal model is recommended as it offers both (wide)view (ground cover) VS target-zoom(people/cars) (with some IVS-Rules)?

Which model would you recommend, and why?

Thank you very much.
Greets.

Bartel

Damn dude, your house is awesome, where do you live?

 

[Bartel]

Damn dude, your house is awesome, where do you live?

Thanks! Living in Belgium .
House is built in 1949 by the local coal mine industry for their head engineers. Love it as well.

Unfortunately already had unwanted visitors, so would like to avoid/counter that for the future ;-).

 

[Bartel]

When you cant find that exact same model number on Dahua's website its a Chinese Market model thats made of plastic and comes with hacked firmware..

The 4431R is nothing like the 5231R; ones a 4MP that sux nuts, the other is a 2MP Starlight that kicks ass.. buy the 5231R; if you read the first post its very clear thats the one you need.

Varifocals do not zoom on activity.. your going to set the focus/zoom once and its going to stay there until you take that camera down and put it someplace else.. if you want this capability buy a PTZ

Thanks nayr!!
Hmmm, have to reconsider the PTZ option then, as I expected that the 5231R had zoom, it was remotely controllable.

As it is a house with all natural fences (all hedges), I think I will need the PTZ. Maybe try it with 2 camera's then (at first)(scanning mode) and maybe addef with some other sensors (IR sensor when somebody drives up the porch).

For the PTZ, the SD49225T-HN is the way to go?

 

[nayr]

Zoom without pan/tilt sucks, its only going to zoom in on the center of the image.. yes this is remotely zoomable, not through IVS or anything.. This is to give you all the focal points from 2.8mm-12mm so you can set the frame exactly at what you need with no guesswork.. unlike a fixed camera your stuck with the lens/frame it comes with.

its far too slow at zooming/focusing to be used to track someone and because of no pan/tilt it cant track anything anyhow.. its a motorized varifocal camera, not a zoom camera.. they make manual varifocal cameras too but you have to physically zoom/focus them with your hands, no remote anything.. trust me, motorized is much better.

PTZ's can only watch one thing at a time, you'll get better security with dedicated fixed cameras watching the important targets.. because your not a security guard who's always there to point the PTZ at whatever's most interesting.. but yes, the SD49225T-HN is a fine camera for the price.

 

[Bartel]

Zoom without pan/tilt sucks, its only going to zoom in on the center of the image.. yes this is remotely zoomable, not through IVS or anything.. This is to give you all the focal points from 2.8mm-12mm so you can set the frame exactly at what you need with no guesswork.. unlike a fixed camera your stuck with the lens/frame it comes with.

its far too slow at zooming/focusing to be used to track someone and because of no pan/tilt it cant track anything anyhow.. its a motorized varifocal camera, not a zoom camera.. they make manual varifocal cameras too but you have to physically zoom/focus them with your hands, no remote anything.. trust me, motorized is much better.

PTZ's can only watch one thing at a time, you'll get better security with dedicated fixed cameras watching the important targets.. because your not a security guard who's always there to point the PTZ at whatever's most interesting.. but yes, the SD49225T-HN is a fine camera for the price.

Thanks again for the clarification. I suppose that the auto tracking is, like they say about most others, overrated?

Then the 5231R is back on the table. Just need to figure out how many I minimally need of them.

 

[nayr]

I'll let you know about the autotracking; Ive got one on the way.. Dahua at least couples up there smart detection functions w/Autotracking.. ie, you do a linecross and only when that linecross will it start tracking the object.. thats alot better than what others offer that just follow everything that moves and you cant define min/max sizes, zones, etc.. going to take a butt load of setup/tuning to get it working right if it does work well... and then it may still be limited and not the scifi artificial intelligence shit everyone wants.

Ive got fixed cameras watching all the important shit, my PTZ's are for getting second angles with high zoom capabilities.

 

[looney2ns]

Not clear on the mounting heights you are referring to, but if you want to be able to ID a culprit, You don't want the cam's any higher than 8ft off the ground. You not only want to be able see what happened, but who did it.

Learn how to use this: Camera Calculator / Design Software Keep PPF greater than 100.

 

[aristobrat]

I think a varifocal model is recommended as it offers both (wide)view (ground cover) VS target-zoom(people/cars) (with some IVS-Rules)?

With the IVS-Rules, I think (since you're going to be recording to a Synology), the only benefit you'll get from them (other than the motion detection one) is being able to send an email alert when those rules are triggered...

If I've followed other posts correctly (I have a 5231R-Z on order, but it'll be my first Dahua), only certain Dahua NVRs can start recording when alerted by any IVS rule. For non-Dahua NVRs (like Synology), the only rule that can trigger recordings on them is "motion detection".

I'm running a Synology + Hik camera that has the same limitations. I ended up configuring the camera to have the Synology record anytime the camera senses motion (anywhere in the frame) and that works well. Additionally, I have line crossing and intrusion detection setup. If those are triggered, the camera will send me an email with 3 pictures of what's going on. Although those rules can't trigger recordings on their own (with the Synology), the overarching motion detection rule covers that for me, and the emails just let me know something of interest happened.

I've got a 5231R-Z on order and hope that it can email pictures if various IVS rules are triggered!

 

[nayr]

it can email, and you can also put a SD card into it and have it record to that as a backup.. since SD are small and expencive it helps that alot.

 

[aristobrat]

Learn how to use this: Camera Calculator / Design Software Keep PPF greater than 100.

Any thoughts on how that site would handle the 5231R-Z (which is "only" 2MP, but it has a larger sensor). Seems to me that the pictures people have posted from that 5231R-Z look like they have a higher PPF than what the site calculates (using another 2MP camera option, couldn't find the 5231R-Z listed on it yet).

it can email, and you can also put a SD card into it and have it record to that as a backup.. since SD are small and expencive it helps that alot.

With the email, can it attach pictures? I like the SD card backup option.

 

[nayr]

yes, dont trust those sample images at all

take ipvm calculator with a grain of salt, rarely does it represent reality... but its close enough.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Any thoughts on how that site would handle the 5231R-Z (which is "only" 2MP, but it has a larger sensor). Seems to me that the pictures people have posted from that 5231R-Z look like they have a higher PPF than what the site calculates (using another 2MP camera option, couldn't find the 5231R-Z listed on it yet).


With the email, can it attach pictures? I like the SD card backup option.

those sites are OK to give you an idea, but the easier thing to do is just buy a motorized varifocal camera and tweak it in place, too many things have an effect on the image, you need to get a camera in place and play with the settings and zoom and if you move the camera later, you can use it in virtually any location.

 

[looney2ns]

Any thoughts on how that site would handle the 5231R-Z (which is "only" 2MP, but it has a larger sensor). Seems to me that the pictures people have posted from that 5231R-Z look like they have a higher PPF than what the site calculates (using another 2MP camera option, couldn't find the 5231R-Z listed on it yet).


With the email, can it attach pictures? I like the SD card backup option.

Input the camera's info manually, don't choose on the list.

 

[Bartel]

nayr, is there any difference still between the 5231R models (bullet, dome, turret), aside from just the casing?

As this IPC-HDBW5231R-ZS is a great deal (or is it too good to be true?):
Dahua H2.65 IPC HDBW5231R ZS IP Camera 2.8mm ~12mm varifocal motorized lens 2MP IR50M with sd Card slot POE network camera-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
Will definitely contact @EMPIRETECANDY as well!

 

[nayr]

Too good to be true; thats not a starlight..

1/2.7 "2Megapixel progressive scan CMOS Aptina company

thats all wrong, should be a 1/2.8 Sony Exmor with much better low light specs..

 

[Bartel]

Thought so already...

Thinking now about getting 2/3 turrets (IPC-HDW5231R-ZS), for fixed (low-light) vision, and 1/2 PTZ (SD22204T-GN), for additional covering during daytime (ptz triggered by fixed turrets).